Veloce Raptor

There aren't too many folks/vehicles who can NOT lift a little bit entering those turns when they are really on it. It's how much, and when, that define overall speed in those segments IMO.

You may have been smoother in Blue because you were going more slowly. It is a lot easier ot be smooth when you don't feel you have to hurry. When everything comes at you a lot faster, it is easy to allow yourself to get hurried. This is often exemplified as being overly aggressive mechanically. The mental discipline required to keep things in slow motion in your mind is a big part of what is needed in the higher run groups, and especially what I coach towards.

Jake has said we will alternate direction every other event. So, the October LSR/Hill Country event should be CW, weather permitting. I'd like to ride with you, regardless of direction, but if you'd prefer to do it CW, it'll have to wait an additional month.

Greg Smith

Yup, I often find that when people say that they can take these turns flat out their brakes lights mysteriously come on(or they lift) if you're behind them.

For me the only flat out turns that I can think of are 11, 15, and 1.

Veloce Raptor

For me (unless I mess up): 1, 9, 11, 14, and 15. 14 is the one I mess up the most often in this regard.

The only cars I know of that can do 5, 7, and 12 truly flat are well driven SM's and SRF's (as well as formula cars, etc, naturally).

C.J. Ichiban

so there's going to be an event there in october? can you send me a link to register?

ervtx

When I am most conscious of it, I'm very aware that I'm approaching the next turn more quickly than I used to, and I don't feel hurried. My problem feels more like that I deliberately get on the brake quicker (not further away from turn-in, just harder - a lot closer to where I was braking before). And then a lot of the time, that ends up slowing me down more than I needed to, and so I'm back on the gas again with the same urgency.

Wish I had the data to confirm, but my guess is that while I may be quicker when measured from the beginning of the braking zone to track out, all of it comes just before turn-in, and from the apex on. Between turn-in and apex, I'm probably slower. Worse, I'm probably turning in while the front suspension is still recovering from the more extreme compression. I'm sure that my hands have advanced to yellow in the same fashion as my feet, so the turn-in also progresses from neutral to the required radius in less time than is required, contributing further to lack of smoothness while the suspension is still rebounding.

T4 CW at TWS, where you noticed negative g that was too high at turn in, is a good example. That didn't feel hurried or like I was late on the brake. It was the transition from negative g to lateral g that felt worse.

And so here's why you're going to help me in Sept. regardless of direction... I can't tell if we're talking about different aspects of the same thing, or not. I might be hurried and not realize it. I might be smoother than I think, and just need to grow some cajones to go to the apex with the same improvement in speed I've found elsewhere. I've been lucky to have been challenged by 3 different tracks (5 if you count alternate configurations) across 10 or 11 DE's, so I'm perfectly happy working on hand-eye coordination, driving technique, feeling the suspension, vision, etc vs. specific turns at specific tracks. AND if I make it to TWS in October, I won't let you forget that you nonetheless had turn-specific coaching for me. So save me a run or two for both events!

ervtx

C.J., the Lone Star region opens registration for their events at noon, exactly 30 days prior to the event. You'll want to register at at clubresgistration.net on that day, because they fill up quickly. Not sure what the exact October date is, but you can always monitor http://www.lsrpca.com/DE/DE.html#nextde.

C.J. Ichiban

cool thanks man. I just hope it doesn't coincide with my skippy school, ALMS race @Laguna, or formula school...

Greg Smith

Ah yes, I forgot about 9, I can take that flat out easily(mainly due to my gearing and having to short shift into 4th). I also take 14 flat out. Being able to take those turns flat out has a lot of to with how you take the turn before them(very very late apex). If done right it's easy.

I didn't do a very good lap in my head I guess

Veloce Raptor

Yeah, here's my gear selection:

5-4 for T2

4-3 for T3

4th thru T4 & T5

4-3 for T6

5th thru T7

5-4 for T8

4th thru T9

4-3 for T10

3rd thru T11

4th thru T12

4-3 for T13

3rd thry T14 and T15, upshifting exiting T15

FWIW

Russell, no worries, we will see what's up this fall!

tfro

I'm surprised 12 isn't flat in both yours and greg's car. I always lifted, but so little that I figured others could be flat through there. I guess I'm just slower through 11 than I thought I was.

Same with 5, if not more so. I guess slow through 4 makes it easy to not lift for 5.

Veloce Raptor

I come out of 4 really fast, so I typically do like a 20% lift, briefly, for 5 to let the front tires bite and help the rear rotate better, then back to WOT (presuming I haven't messed up my line) to push the car to track right.

I get to WOT well before the apex of 10 if I do it right, so by the time I am at 12, I am hauling the mail. A ~10% breathe early is all I need, then back to WOT just after turn in.

ervtx

Yep, had a hoot; CW much better, richochet uphill...

Very hot and windy today! Someone went off in front of me at little bend, and the next time I came around there was 50 ft. long line of fire in the grass and growing rapidly. By the time I got back to the grid area, the fire was had been put out, but the smoke plume was as big as a 20-story building. Also had to end my last session early due to water temp (one of those air scoops in front of the front tire that forces air into the radiator has been trying to fall off for several DE's now, and it finally came off today; probably didn't help).

Anyway, first time going CW for me... Don't know if 1:30 is respectable, but that was what the last lap on the tape indicated...

roll tape... http://www.vimeo.com/1329763

Veloce Raptor

So....what were your thoughts of TDE? I hope it was better than the picture we painted for you...

ervtx

A mixed bag. I didn't go in with a completely negative picture, but was attentive for what would be different. Turns out, plenty...

Drivers' Meeting: a LOT of sponsor air time, no review on the meaning of each flag (assumption was made that everyone had read them), and when it came to safety, assumption was that bad things happen because drivers don't "behave", so lots "turn to your neighbor and promise not to mis-behave...". Weird. After breaking into a separate drivers' meeting for red/yellow, we were starting to get an announcement regarding yellow getting the same 5th passing zone afforded to red - on Sunday - when all of a sudden, it turns into, "you know what? you're good guys, so how about we try the extra passing zone today? What do ya'll think?" A chorus of cheers. More weird.

Track/Grid Management: Grid was less structured in terms allowing traffic jams with exiting run groups, and letting cars out as they signaled ready vs. by team. But timely and managed well enough. (Except for the time when I came off with a warning light on water temps and got held up by grid traffic while trying to get the car parked in a hurry). Corner workers were hard to see for some reason. One dude manned the station from his truck because there were bees. Whatever!

Instruction: It would have been hard to predict my experience because it was just a fluke... I've always wanted to get some instruction from John Gladwell since he knows my car setup and we talk so frequently about what the car is doing in between events. Turns out he was instructing yellow this weekend, and we managed to get assignments swapped so he could ride with me. So that was great to finally pull it off. Of course now he knows just how well his tuning works on my car vs. the driver... he said he doesn't charge enough for the work on the car The Pbox says I never did any better than a 1:29. In fact it says I was pretty consistent (all laps w/in 1 or 2 seconds of 1:30), but it sure didn't feel possible to be that consistent given all of the traffic-induced lifts.

Other Cars/Drivers: The variety was so great, I don't think I can even recall what the most predominant make was. Probably Corvette. But there was everything from a Ford GT to a Mr. Potato Head (sorry, couldn't make out just what that thing was other than a bunch of car parts!). Didn't see too much bad driving, but more than usual. Got a point by coming out of Buzzards Neck that went "right", wait, no "left", oops you're already headed right, so "right!". Also a greater willingness to give and take bad point-by's - like way too late to get it done before the turn. To be fair, however, most of the time people stuck to their intent, and would brake to compensate and make sure the pass took place. I got moved to red on Sunday (= PCA white), and that was more of the same, only coming at a faster pace... giving and taking point-by's on almost every straight on every lap. I have to say that it was actually quite fun in the sense that it provided a great learning opportunity. One moment a '07 Z06 just appears out of nowhere, and the next, I'm crawling all over a spec Boxter. Oops, scratch that. A Miata!

I would do it again. A nice group of drivers, but still, it was good to see some familiar faces from PCA. But I'm glad that I was prepared ahead of time (thanks!), otherwise I might have been more shocked, and then distracted on the track.

Did I mention that they allowed us wear shorts?

Veloce Raptor

The shorts thing is a BIG plus for them in our climate. PCA needs to wise up in that regard.

All I can say is WOW regarding the drivers' meeting.

John G is an exceptional driver and instructor. Happy to hear that worked out!