The vast majority of wrecks I have seen in DE's do not involve people with "little experience." It is usually the upper run groups where the carnage occurs.

 

I absolutely pass no judgement on what someone brings to the track. I like seeing the exotic cars there and just hearing the exhaust note makes the track that much better. The question is a reasonable one to ask though. It is really hard to instruct a student in a high hp car with acceptable risk limits. I had a driver offer his moded GT2 with 650hp at the wheels at a recent event. His only advice was not to go "flat out" around the Nascar turn because it will walk to the wall by exit (car was on slicks). I had never had to consider hitting 160mph on the Pocono North course, but in that car I could. I was of course not interested in doing so or writing a check for the car.
One student had a new vette on slicks. He was a solo driver and instructors jumped into every car for at least one session. His car skills were pretty good, but I felt a little nervous at the speeds we were reaching and not knowing his ability. I suggested he concentrate more on trailbraking than on ultimate speed if he was interested in being a better driver in the turns. His answer to me was " I thought we brake in a straight line only?" I was not interested in teaching him to apply trailing in the high speed turns.

Paolo is a good example of someone wanting to become a better driver by taking a lower hp car to the track rather than his new potentially faster car. You can learn to drive a real fast car well, there is just more risk in doing so as mistakes and limits are approached.

 

Well Tom, i'll name one guy... me. Of course I didn't have a GT3 but a brand new 997S. I started with it in DE and moved to an older car (several actually). This has been beaten to death in the past here, drive what you want.. but don't for one second think that all of us that are driving "lesser" cars are doing so because we couldn't be driving the newest/best that Porsche offers. To each his own...

Yep, and Paolo is a prime example. Came to the track with his new Cayman S and was advised to get an older car to learn to drive.. bought his 87 911 and hasn't looked back!

 

VR, the point is not to worry about the cars ultimate speed. I see some really well driven older 911's and 912s out there and 944 NA's. Going to the track and getting hooked, then going out and getting a faster car before getting the skill set down is not the best way to get faster. I cannot tell how well someone has progressed when it is HP they added in the off-season. So sorry if I made my point incorrectly.

 

Frankly, I do not give 2 hoots what folks bring to the track. Bravo to them for coming out! The only time I get concerned is when I see advanced run group drivers scared to death of their supercar on track. Wanna pussyfoot around? Fine by me, just do it in Green or Blue, please.

I get your point, Bob, but I can usually tell riding with someone if it's them....or the car.

 

I by no means consider myself a fast driver, but I do see the point that gums makes. It seems that 5-10 years ago a lot of the club racers were guys who had done the AX and TT for several years and then went to the track, now you can do a few DE's and take your Cup car to the race track and go w2w racing. I am a fairly young guy who has been lucky that my father loves Porsche's and is able to race what he wants to. I started in a '72 914-4 doing AX and TT back in 95, since then we have progressed to Cup cars and they are a blast to drive. I think bang for the buck it is the way to go racing but it can also get you into a lot of trouble real fast.

I will say that I think PCA does a good job of making sure that everyone is safe and 99% of the people out there have the commong sense to know what they can handle and what they cant, but there will always be that one guy who is just clueless.

 

Well............. Bobt993 and Gary R., thank you very much........

I am still in the never ending learning zone.......

 

cough cough bruce gingrich cough cough and clueless equals dangerous as hell cough cough

Good post, Chris.

 

Hey I never mentioned any names here!! I just know that 6 out of the last 6 races we have been to one of the three cars has been hit!! We raced PCA for 9 years without ever having a single incident!!! PCA is changing but so are we, 997 Cup gone....3 SPEC BOX's in. At this rate we can total a car each year and still come out ahead after 8 years!!!So all you Texas guys better watch out!

 

All points well taken, and here on R-list likely preaching to the choir. And I commend the guys who want to learn to drive their supercars properly, I would encourage them. But, what I might be trying to say is that if you want to learn to drive a car to its absolute limit, don't go out in an Enzo or a Carrera GT to probe it. Those cars have way more potential than their rich drivers. Take a lesser, but proper car, and drive that with abandon, you'll find your limits without risking your life.

 

He has gone to race with SCCA. Very small (if any) fields in his class (so he gets to "win" every time ). And his driving "style" suits their demolition derby mentality.

 

Correct. Let me drive those cars for them instead.

 

yeah those guys seem to be a bit harder on the body panels then the PCA guys are

 

Well...

I don't think it's any secret that learning to drive really well is easier in a "slower" car. Beyond not being nearly as exponentially dangerous, it is not as scary. Yes indeed, bring that dream car to the track and live it out. No problem. Just don't kid yourself that you can exploit it as fully as a "lesser" car. Most people never will be able to start at the end and work their way back to the beginning. I catch them all the time.

And if you aint a little scared of that uber rocket, I don't want to ride with you. Conscious Incompetents only need apply!

 

Hello. My name is Russell, and I am an incompetent. Wait... Oops. Wrong group... never mind.