The reason why cars meet the tires at the tunnel is the same reason why cars meet the armco across from the track out of the fast esses. "Implications of mistakes"
Put wheels off at either location, the driver best drive straight and not try to get back on track or across the track you go.
Wheels off at T15 can also shoot you across the track into the concrete if done wrong.
As good as you guys say that you are, I'll take my advice and instruction from those who drive for a living.....

 

I don't think anyone here said they were "good", sparky. But we HAVE seen what works, and what doesn't work (and leads to bent Armco). If you wanna play ostrich, be my guest.

 

I keep hearing about the "safe line" over the tunnel...I look thru youtube and can't find what is described here....can someone post one?

I did find these:

Track Tour w/ Patrick Long
P Long GT3
Barber Test
Lotus Elise driving in intermediate solo class chasing Porsche 904 The P Car has the straight speed but no line and can't get away...is that the "safe" tunnel approach ???

 

Long in the GT3 does exactly what we have advocated.

RS driver, when he gets clear track, does the same.

904 driver (a) turns in way too early for 13; (b) doesn't get the car straight at the top of the tunnel, and (c) is bog slow from 13-15.

What else ya got?

 

EDIT: by contrast, this is really the way the car should be placed--albeit briefly--atop the tunnel to allow the chassis to settle enough for a full-throttle run down the hill & all the way to 14:

 

Also, if you listen to the RS driver, he is actually braking in the kink on the back straight.

 

There have been several rear engined cars hit the inside barrier between 12 and 13 without ever having tires off. All it takes is lifting at the top of the hill with a good bit of steering angle. In either case, it is the line through 12 that sets them up for trouble. Running out of track with the car pointed at the flag station together with cresting the hill, is entirely different than 2 off in the kink. Even a poor driver can save the car there, especially with the new pavement in the runoff. Conversely, I have had 2 off at the tunnel more times than I can recall, but there is no drama with little-to-no angle on the wheel.

You basically have 2 choices when it comes to taking a traditional line thru 12...either go slow and easy (and lose ground)...or go fast and eventually eat tire.

With your attitude, I hope you don't take our advice, and that you have a rear engined car...

 

How's this line and driving?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWiI5pUZ7pA&NR=1

 

Yup.

Mdrums, except for the overdose of ABS, it's fine. Murry knows. Note how straight the car is atop the tunnel, and for how long--directly related to his line into 12, as 944S2 says above.

 

Velocity, I have only driven Barber at a PDE event 2 years ago but I really remember the line well for that track. To be honest I am trying to figure out what is the tunnel turn since there is really no tunnel.

Are you talking about the blind crest before you go straight down into a right turn and back up a hill to the pit out?

 

If you look there is a tunnel going under the track, it's where you mention.

 

Yes, exactly. It is the blind crest between 12 and 13. As roach says, there is an access tunnel beneath it.

 

OK...gotcha now. So I have been going back and forth on the Cass and Long video and the GT3RS video. It seems that at the crest of the hill Cass is not all the way over to the left and is almost in a constint slight right hand bend. Correct? It seems from all the youtube video's I have watched at Barber some guys that track out to the left are in a slight straight line shorter or longer than others.

Thanks in advance for the insight and help everyone...so and I seeing this and thinking this correctly. to be honest it is hard for me to tell the small little things like this on you tube.

 

It's all good, Mike! Cass' line works at lower speeds, but if you are really hauling the mail, it usually leads to Bad Things...or, at best, being bog slow like the 904 was there in Jones' video. I just don't like teaching bad habits at slower speeds that can lead to meeting the Armco at higher speeds.

 

Mike
Simply put, it's just using a very late apex to set the car facing up the track as you crest the hill, rather than across the track. This allows application of the throttle all the way up and over the hill. Watch the RS video. He doesn't get back into the throttle until he is over the hill. He can't, because of the line he has chosen.
If you're going fast, the car will still track out all the way to the left, but it's not hard to imagine which way you'd rather have the car pointed when you get to the edge of the track and the top of the hill at the same time.

Youtube video sux for this sort of thing, especially when the camera is being hand held.