LVDell

My question to the "NASA" statement is what contribution to "partially ejected" was due to 4-pt belts? That whole "partially ejected" is a picture in my mind I don't want to think about any more. What they didn't say in the "statement" is if the driver made it or not. It just says "further medical treatment occurred"

mglobe

First of all, RIP and prayers to the family.

I don't know the specific track, but it does bring up the question I posed in this forum just last week. Are tracks, drivers, and organizers doing enough about track conditions and run-off areas to avoid these things?

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...light=mitigate

On another safety related note, I wonder about the Mini Cooper itself. I know that LSRPCA has banned the Mini from their events at TWS. From what I understand it was because of too many Mini related roll-overs. I know folks have been hurt and/or lost their lives in other vehicles, but is there something about Mini's that track people need to know? Search youtube, and you'll find a Mini roll-over, where both doors come off the car.

wanna911

Seems to me like you see far more roll overs on the west coast at the track with sand instead of gravel and grass combo. But the thing is you see more people hit barriers on this side because the grass wont stop you.

fatbillybob

You also have to add the increase of basic horsepower/weight ratios of modern cars. In 1984 a vette had 200hp and a Ferrari had 250 in roughly 3000lb cars. Today a vette starts at 425hp and Ferrari starts at 400hp in roughly a 3000lb car. That math alone has death written all over it.

IamSMC

On the East Coast, it used to be called Bridgehampton.....

gbaker

I don't know the specific numbers but the Mini, while being a sporty car, does not have the low center of gravity combined with the wide track typical of a sports car, e.g. P-car, Vette, Viper, etc.

Just guessing, but it's probably as prone to roll over as a Ford Taurus.

What a shame...

amaist

We all have to remember that it is a risky hobby and it will never be 100% safe. The moment it becomes 100% safe is the moment most of us will stop doing it.

People still do mountain climbing and scuba diving and those things are even more dangerous. During winter we constantly keep hearing of skiers buried under avalanches, falling off cliffs, lost in off trail woods, etc. Nobody proclaims that drastic measures need to be taken. (Well, nobody who would be taken seriously)

We must do all that is possible to run safe events but we will never make them completely accident proof.
To me enforcement of driver attitude and discipline is the biggest factor affecting safety. The "whatever floats your boat" attitude is not a good way to run events. At best is causes too many interruptions when cars need to be extracted from the track.

fatbillybob

Now is your chance to help do something about theis issue.


http://www.trackhq.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1191

Edward

Three components here as I see it:
1. The track's inherent responsibility to provide a venue that is "reasonably" safe in that "practical" measures are in place to provide safety to both drivers and spectators. Yes these words are loaded, and any attorney could have a field day going either way, but there must be some measure of responsibility on the track owner's part to provide a venue that at the very least is NOT CONDUCIVE to harm. Here is where I believe, and have believed for years, that WSIR has fallen short: T8/T9 runoff is hideous; no exaggeration; and it is too easily/cheaply solved with simple grading machinery, but they have chosen not to. That, in the opinion of this layman, is irresponsible.

2. The event organizers have to instill rules AND enforce them. Not just the nudge/wink method, but actually do real "tech checks" ...this applies to us all, but is particularly prudent for the less experienced as it is they whose "enthusiasm" is more likely to obscure serious/real safety concerns with their vehicle. Anyone who has had even one serious off knows to respect safety gear.

3. The driver is, ultimately, responsible should the track and organizers fail in their duties ("duties" as I see it, anyway). It is your own hide; seek to preserve it with gear, sound instruction, and a firm understanding of what your abilities are.

Understand that none of my above thoughts are at all directed to the unfortunate incident immediately at hand. But any incident at the track is, IMHO, a potential learning moment/warning to us all. Any of us can do "all the right things" and still end up in a wreck. But it behooves us to look out for the safety of everyone involved in this sport. Like this very Board, the track "community" is a small one, and many of us enjoy the cameraderie off the track as much as on the tarmac. I am saddened by the loss of this gentleman and feel for his family. Perhaps we can put ourselves in those shoes and act in a way that may help prevent another tragedy.

With respect and condolences,
Edward

Chads996

Folks...this is a perfect example of why 4pt harnesses, a seat and no rollbar is unacceptable for track purposes. Here is the article:

"Dear NASA members and racing community,

A tragic accident occurred at Willow Springs Raceway on May 24th which resulted in life threatening injuries to one of our members. Due to the number of erroneous accounts posted on the internet including supposed “first hand reports” which we know are false, we are publishing this statement of facts in hopes that the racing community will be respectful of the family and refrain from further uninformed speculation.

At 11:30am Joseph Drey was driving his 2002 Mini Cooper S in NASA’s High Performance Driving Experience when the vehicle left the racing surface at the exit of Turn 9 and subsequently turned back across the track. While sliding across the infield dirt, the vehicle rolled an unknown number of times, landing upright but causing the driver to be partially ejected from the vehicle. The vehicle sustained the most significant damage located in the right rear, with additional damage extending to all remaining portions of the vehicle. The left front wheel assembly was separated from the vehicle while the other wheel assemblies remained attached. A fixed back racing seat was properly installed and remains securely attached he the vehicle. A DOT approved 4 point harness restraint system was being utilized. Rescue teams were performing lifesaving measures within 1 minute from when the car stopped rolling and immediate medical aid was administered by NASA Safety, paramedics, and 2 physicians. The patient was transported to the hospital via air ambulance where further medical treatment occurred.

It is with great regret we must recount this tragedy and all information from this event will be analyzed by experts and/or manufacturers. Should anything be learned which could improve the environment for our drivers, changes will be reflected in the NASA Club Codes and Regulations."

Sobering stuff. Be safe out there.

Photos of the car:

Circuit Motorsports

Since you don't know what happened you can't make that statement. The article really gives no insight into whawt did or didn't happen.

The seat looks like it didn't fail. The area where a driver would be sitting isn't collapsed/intruded so would a rollbar have helped????. You can't tell what happened with the harness setup.

I'm not sure what harness system he had, but the Scrhoth ASM 4pt. harnesses have a very neat way of dealign with submarining.

M758

Just to make things clear those photos were not generated by NASA and NOT included in any notice issued by NASA. NASA does not condone posting of those photos the organization as a whole does not look kindly on those put post crash photos on the internet.

kary993

For those that know WSIR and perhaps remember Laguna Seca before FIA run-offs were installed, or remember Sears (infineon) since they made changes, I would have to say that petitioning WSIR to do some minor modifications for safety is a reasonable and prudent thing to ask.

If they were to say no and further incidents occur that result from that negligence, then proper actions will ultimately take care of it, but if we do not make a request I can guarantee that nothing will happen.

I would suggest for those that have driven WSIR and also believe it can be made safer please join in with the petition.

schvetkaaks

This type of issue is exactly why I changed from a street car to a track-only car - safety. I want to be sure that no matter what happens, I'm coming home to my daughter and wife that day. Full, hardcore roll cage, fire supression, 6-pt harnesses, window net, soon to be installed right side net, HANS device, driving suit.

amaist

Exactly. Negligence is negligence and can't be dismissed by signed waivers.
If there is something reasonable that can be done to make it safer it should be.

The same situation is in the skiing industry. If ski patrol saw an obvious danger but failed to mark it in a timely manner the hill will be held responsible if something goes wrong.