Driver Killed at Willow Springs
05-26-2008, 12:46 AM
#18
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05-26-2008, 10:54 AM
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Our hearts are out to the families that have suffered a loss of any type to this sport. These accidents are wake up calls to most so many - as once again they how dangerous a sport it is that they chose to participate in.
Meanwhile, I hope Greg's info is correct -- it's the best news posted in this thread. And hopefully, with today's medical professionals... all will be well.
05-26-2008, 02:10 PM
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I don't think anyone's jumping to conclusions in this thread. More so, I think education and discussion like these are beneficial to anyone reading these forums expecially rookies. Regardless of the facts surrounding this particular incident, discussing safety equipment and any potential flaws in particular types of equipment is one of the most potent benefits of these forums.
Last edited by jrgordonsenior; 05-26-2008 at 02:25 PM.
05-26-2008, 03:08 PM
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I don't think anyone's jumping to conclusions in this thread. More so, I think education and discussion like these are beneficial to anyone reading these forums expecially rookies. Regardless of the facts surrounding this particular incident, discussing safety equipment and any potential flaws in particular types of equipment is one of the most potent benefits of these forums.
This is in no way any "commentary" on the unfortunate fellow here, as clearly we all wish his family the best, and hope that he is, indeed, in the hospital recovering. If anyone has details, please share. It is things like this that remind us all how small a community we are, and that we should all do as much as we can to help/support one another.
Edward
05-26-2008, 03:22 PM
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The need to stop the speculation on the accident has nothing to do with discussion of the accident. So far we've proven that noone has a clue what is going on and that we could be talking about a fully raceprepped, mini coooper convertible with 3pt. harnesses and a 123 year old driver speculation should stop. Nothing against anyone but if you dont' know what happened you aren't helping anything by contributing unsubstantiated facts to the discussion.
The speculation and discussion are independant things and should be kept separate.
The speculation actually hinders the useful discussion that should come from an incident like this. Right now there is a whole pile of misinformation floating around out there. How bout everyone step back and just hope that the driver is in fact okay and wait until someone with actual facts can step in and enlighten us.
The speculation and discussion are independant things and should be kept separate.
The speculation actually hinders the useful discussion that should come from an incident like this. Right now there is a whole pile of misinformation floating around out there. How bout everyone step back and just hope that the driver is in fact okay and wait until someone with actual facts can step in and enlighten us.
05-26-2008, 03:32 PM
#25
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A quick Google search turns up some (possibly-reliable) information:
The seat tore out of the floor during it's multiple end-over-end roll.
The driver was conscious when the emergency crew and officials got out there.
The driver was injured, and was airlifted from the track -- but is currently in stable condition.
One account: "I don't know anyone involved, but I saw an HPDE blue Mini lose control in turn 9, attempt to save it, dart back across the track, hit the ditch on the inside and barrel roll then end over end a number of times. The car was completely crushed looking and a medical helicopter had to come in."
Another poster then clarified that the damage wasn't as bad as it looked from far away, that "the front and rear had a lot of damage but the driver's door area was ok, the passengers side door was crushed a little, the roof was just touching the seat. There was only one person in the car, he had a 4 point harness and somehow during the crash he ended up not in the harness. When they got to the car the belts were still buckled and he was partially on the passenger side. He was being operated on this afternoon. I was told this by a nasa official."
An attendee at Sunday's event wrote: "At the sunday nasa event, they told us the driver was 75 years old and that he had 4 surgeries yesterday. He is still in serious (or maybe critical) condition."
Also: "There was another crash in Turn 9 on Sunday. This time a fully caged Honda Challenge race car. I was on track at the time as Spec Miata and HC share the track for their race. There was an ambulance and paramedics, and the race was cut short, but I don't know if the driver is ok or any details."
All of this is second-hand, so take it as such. But it seems likely that there wasn't a fatality, but a serious injury.
Still, that's a terrible weekend for a track with a very good safety record dating all the way back to the 1950s.
The seat tore out of the floor during it's multiple end-over-end roll.
The driver was conscious when the emergency crew and officials got out there.
The driver was injured, and was airlifted from the track -- but is currently in stable condition.
One account: "I don't know anyone involved, but I saw an HPDE blue Mini lose control in turn 9, attempt to save it, dart back across the track, hit the ditch on the inside and barrel roll then end over end a number of times. The car was completely crushed looking and a medical helicopter had to come in."
Another poster then clarified that the damage wasn't as bad as it looked from far away, that "the front and rear had a lot of damage but the driver's door area was ok, the passengers side door was crushed a little, the roof was just touching the seat. There was only one person in the car, he had a 4 point harness and somehow during the crash he ended up not in the harness. When they got to the car the belts were still buckled and he was partially on the passenger side. He was being operated on this afternoon. I was told this by a nasa official."
An attendee at Sunday's event wrote: "At the sunday nasa event, they told us the driver was 75 years old and that he had 4 surgeries yesterday. He is still in serious (or maybe critical) condition."
Also: "There was another crash in Turn 9 on Sunday. This time a fully caged Honda Challenge race car. I was on track at the time as Spec Miata and HC share the track for their race. There was an ambulance and paramedics, and the race was cut short, but I don't know if the driver is ok or any details."
All of this is second-hand, so take it as such. But it seems likely that there wasn't a fatality, but a serious injury.
Still, that's a terrible weekend for a track with a very good safety record dating all the way back to the 1950s.
05-26-2008, 04:11 PM
#26
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For those of you not familiar with Willow Springs, it's the oldest continually-operated road course in North America. Outside of being made a little wider (in the eighties?), it hasn't been significantly modified since it was originally laid out in 1953.
Turn 9 is a decreasing-radius high-speed corner that is very easy to apex too early -- especially in a low-hp, FWD car like a Mini, where the temptation can be to ride the inside edge of the track all the way from the exit of 8 to the apex of 9. The corner is usually not a problem for beginners, who don't carry a lot of speed through it, but is more hazardous for intermediate and advanced drivers, who might be carrying around 100 mph at the apex.
If you overcook 9 and break loose on the exit, a correction will frequently move you back across the track, to the right side, where there is uneven terrain, that -- unfortunately -- can send a car end over end.
Turn 9 is a decreasing-radius high-speed corner that is very easy to apex too early -- especially in a low-hp, FWD car like a Mini, where the temptation can be to ride the inside edge of the track all the way from the exit of 8 to the apex of 9. The corner is usually not a problem for beginners, who don't carry a lot of speed through it, but is more hazardous for intermediate and advanced drivers, who might be carrying around 100 mph at the apex.
If you overcook 9 and break loose on the exit, a correction will frequently move you back across the track, to the right side, where there is uneven terrain, that -- unfortunately -- can send a car end over end.
05-26-2008, 05:04 PM
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A quick Google search turns up some (possibly-reliable) information:
The seat tore out of the floor during it's multiple end-over-end roll.
The driver was conscious when the emergency crew and officials got out there.
The driver was injured, and was airlifted from the track -- but is currently in stable condition.
One account: "I don't know anyone involved, but I saw an HPDE blue Mini lose control in turn 9, attempt to save it, dart back across the track, hit the ditch on the inside and barrel roll then end over end a number of times. The car was completely crushed looking and a medical helicopter had to come in."
Another poster then clarified that the damage wasn't as bad as it looked from far away, that "the front and rear had a lot of damage but the driver's door area was ok, the passengers side door was crushed a little, the roof was just touching the seat. There was only one person in the car, he had a 4 point harness and somehow during the crash he ended up not in the harness. When they got to the car the belts were still buckled and he was partially on the passenger side. He was being operated on this afternoon. I was told this by a nasa official."
An attendee at Sunday's event wrote: "At the sunday nasa event, they told us the driver was 75 years old and that he had 4 surgeries yesterday. He is still in serious (or maybe critical) condition."
Also: "There was another crash in Turn 9 on Sunday. This time a fully caged Honda Challenge race car. I was on track at the time as Spec Miata and HC share the track for their race. There was an ambulance and paramedics, and the race was cut short, but I don't know if the driver is ok or any details."
All of this is second-hand, so take it as such. But it seems likely that there wasn't a fatality, but a serious injury.
Still, that's a terrible weekend for a track with a very good safety record dating all the way back to the 1950s.
The seat tore out of the floor during it's multiple end-over-end roll.
The driver was conscious when the emergency crew and officials got out there.
The driver was injured, and was airlifted from the track -- but is currently in stable condition.
One account: "I don't know anyone involved, but I saw an HPDE blue Mini lose control in turn 9, attempt to save it, dart back across the track, hit the ditch on the inside and barrel roll then end over end a number of times. The car was completely crushed looking and a medical helicopter had to come in."
Another poster then clarified that the damage wasn't as bad as it looked from far away, that "the front and rear had a lot of damage but the driver's door area was ok, the passengers side door was crushed a little, the roof was just touching the seat. There was only one person in the car, he had a 4 point harness and somehow during the crash he ended up not in the harness. When they got to the car the belts were still buckled and he was partially on the passenger side. He was being operated on this afternoon. I was told this by a nasa official."
An attendee at Sunday's event wrote: "At the sunday nasa event, they told us the driver was 75 years old and that he had 4 surgeries yesterday. He is still in serious (or maybe critical) condition."
Also: "There was another crash in Turn 9 on Sunday. This time a fully caged Honda Challenge race car. I was on track at the time as Spec Miata and HC share the track for their race. There was an ambulance and paramedics, and the race was cut short, but I don't know if the driver is ok or any details."
All of this is second-hand, so take it as such. But it seems likely that there wasn't a fatality, but a serious injury.
Still, that's a terrible weekend for a track with a very good safety record dating all the way back to the 1950s.
How do you get out of harnesses while their buckled?
Even better, how do the seats rip out of the floor? Were they factory seats? I dont think I've ever heard of that before.
05-26-2008, 05:06 PM
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A 100mph corner with a "ditch" (as described by the accident description) on the inside of the exit? That doesn't seem right. I hope the guy did survive and will be OK.
05-26-2008, 05:09 PM
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Jesus! (seriously). If he makes it through this one, which I'm praying he has and will, he should be counting his blessings.
How do you get out of harnesses while their buckled?
Even better, how do the seats rip out of the floor? Were they factory seats? I dont think I've ever heard of that before.
How do you get out of harnesses while their buckled?
Even better, how do the seats rip out of the floor? Were they factory seats? I dont think I've ever heard of that before.
05-26-2008, 06:20 PM
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The need to stop the speculation on the accident has nothing to do with discussion of the accident. So far we've proven that noone has a clue what is going on and that we could be talking about a fully raceprepped, mini coooper convertible with 3pt. harnesses and a 123 year old driver speculation should stop. Nothing against anyone but if you dont' know what happened you aren't helping anything by contributing unsubstantiated facts to the discussion.
The speculation and discussion are independant things and should be kept separate.
The speculation actually hinders the useful discussion that should come from an incident like this. Right now there is a whole pile of misinformation floating around out there. How bout everyone step back and just hope that the driver is in fact okay and wait until someone with actual facts can step in and enlighten us.
The speculation and discussion are independant things and should be kept separate.
The speculation actually hinders the useful discussion that should come from an incident like this. Right now there is a whole pile of misinformation floating around out there. How bout everyone step back and just hope that the driver is in fact okay and wait until someone with actual facts can step in and enlighten us.