Monaco F1 Thread
05-24-2008, 01:48 PM
#61
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I don't see why people have such a hard time givig Massa some credit. He's having a great year. He's second in points and both McLaren and BMW have competitive cars/drivers this year.
So now if he wins Monaco it will be "Of course he won. The guy on the pole at Monaco always wins because there is no passing."
05-24-2008, 03:18 PM
#62
And Massa topped Kimi. That is no small feat. It's not like Baricello was always out qualifying Schumacher when they were both at Ferrari.
I don't see why people have such a hard time givig Massa some credit. He's having a great year. He's second in points and both McLaren and BMW have competitive cars/drivers this year.
So now if he wins Monaco it will be "Of course he won. The guy on the pole at Monaco always wins because there is no passing."
I don't see why people have such a hard time givig Massa some credit. He's having a great year. He's second in points and both McLaren and BMW have competitive cars/drivers this year.
So now if he wins Monaco it will be "Of course he won. The guy on the pole at Monaco always wins because there is no passing."
05-24-2008, 03:54 PM
#63
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And Massa topped Kimi. That is no small feat. It's not like Baricello was always out qualifying Schumacher when they were both at Ferrari.
I don't see why people have such a hard time givig Massa some credit. He's having a great year. He's second in points and both McLaren and BMW have competitive cars/drivers this year.
So now if he wins Monaco it will be "Of course he won. The guy on the pole at Monaco always wins because there is no passing."
I don't see why people have such a hard time givig Massa some credit. He's having a great year. He's second in points and both McLaren and BMW have competitive cars/drivers this year.
So now if he wins Monaco it will be "Of course he won. The guy on the pole at Monaco always wins because there is no passing."
Barrichello at his peak was in a different class to massa and would have OQ Schumacher a lot more than you would think, if he was only allowed to . He did so while driving a Stewart for Christ sakes .................
Last edited by A.Wayne; 05-24-2008 at 08:32 PM.
05-24-2008, 06:27 PM
#64
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Tickets... Yes, in other places someone was always selling tickets but don't know for Monaco, well, I'll see it tomorrow.
And Massa topped Kimi. That is no small feat. It's not like Baricello was always out qualifying Schumacher when they were both at Ferrari.
I don't see why people have such a hard time givig Massa some credit. He's having a great year. He's second in points and both McLaren and BMW have competitive cars/drivers this year.
So now if he wins Monaco it will be "Of course he won. The guy on the pole at Monaco always wins because there is no passing."
I don't see why people have such a hard time givig Massa some credit. He's having a great year. He's second in points and both McLaren and BMW have competitive cars/drivers this year.
So now if he wins Monaco it will be "Of course he won. The guy on the pole at Monaco always wins because there is no passing."
Not saying Massa is no good ( carried him last year ) but he is usually pedestrian like at Monaco , so what he shows is the big pace ferrari has . I also believe him to be lighter than Kimi and the rest .
Barrichello at his peak was in a different class to massa and would have OQ Schumacher a lot more that you would think, if he was allowed to . He did so while driving a Stewart for Christ sakes .................
Barrichello at his peak was in a different class to massa and would have OQ Schumacher a lot more that you would think, if he was allowed to . He did so while driving a Stewart for Christ sakes .................
I agree with Wayne, McLaren is heavy and I predict Heikki heavier than Hamilton, same thing at Ferrari, Kimi is heavier than Massa.
It was awesome to see the cars sliding around between the guardrails...
Those guys in other thread who praise NASCAR drivers being better at car control than F1 guys can kiss my ***.
05-24-2008, 07:06 PM
#65
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I found it funny that massa was talking about picking up time (a few tenths) in sector 2. That rang a bell and I thought back to another picture I had seen. It was schui up on the bleachers in sector 2 watching massa go by and writing stuff on a clipboard. I think Massa officially has a driver coach.
Anyway I think kimi is def. heavier on fuel by at least a lap. Who knows on the Mclarens, they sounded confindent thurs. and Ferrari was ready to give it to them. Except kimi seemd to think they had some time left. So if they are heavy on fuel or Ferrari is just faster who knows.
Ohh and I do love them actually having to drive for a change, a nice slow track where the aero doesn't work as well, its fun watching them actually slide and get power oversteer. I think this race may show some good drivers in not so fast cars, like Webber and Rosberg.
and schwank nice pic, I have a new wallpaper!
Anyway I think kimi is def. heavier on fuel by at least a lap. Who knows on the Mclarens, they sounded confindent thurs. and Ferrari was ready to give it to them. Except kimi seemd to think they had some time left. So if they are heavy on fuel or Ferrari is just faster who knows.
Ohh and I do love them actually having to drive for a change, a nice slow track where the aero doesn't work as well, its fun watching them actually slide and get power oversteer. I think this race may show some good drivers in not so fast cars, like Webber and Rosberg.
and schwank nice pic, I have a new wallpaper!
Last edited by MTosi; 05-24-2008 at 07:48 PM.
05-24-2008, 11:01 PM
#66
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Great Pictures from all you guys at the track!!
05-24-2008, 11:15 PM
#67
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Qualifying analysis - can strategy, or rain, defeat Ferrari?
F1.com
Felipe Massa will start from pole position for the first time at Monaco on Sunday, and you have to go back to 2000 since Ferrari last did that. And to 1979 since a Ferrari poleman - future champion Jody Scheckter - actually won the race.
After locking out row one Massa and Kimi Raikkonen are understandably confident. However, McLaren’s Lewis Hamilton and Heikki Kovalainen say they are on race strategies that should allow them to challenge for victory. Much could depend on the weather, however, with rain forecast…
Ferrari
Felipe Massa, 1m 15.787s, P1
Kimi Raikkonen, 1m 15.815s, P4
Massa had a good look through Raikkonen’s telemetry after his first run, but picked up a lot more pace than he had expected to and admitted that he was very surprised to be on pole ahead of his team mate, who said he messed up Ste Devote on his second run and thus had to try and make up for that all through the rest of the lap. There is a suspicion that the F2008s were running lighter than the McLarens, but in any case they seem to maintain their performance with a fuel load, whereas the silver cars lose a little pace.
McLaren
Lewis Hamilton, 1m 15.839s, P3
Heikki Kovalainen, 1m 16.165s, P4
Hamilton said he was surprised by the pace of the Ferraris, and that although his McLaren was very quick in the first sector it lacked traction exiting Portier and the chicane, and that the pace just wasn’t there in the final sector. Kovalainen, who had clobbered the wall at the Swimming Pool in morning practice, and who is almost certainly running the heavier fuel load yet again, said he had a good run and was mystified why there was a relatively large gap to the three cars ahead of him.
BMW Sauber
Robert Kubica, 1m 16.171s, P5
Nick Heidfeld, 1m 16.455s, P13
Kubica was in his customary fifth place, but felt he might have gone a little quicker had he not had Hamilton in front of him on the out lap of his best run. While trying to create a big enough gap between his BMW Sauber and the McLaren he let his tyres cool too much, and suffered as a result. Nevertheless he was a lot happier than Heidfeld, who struggled all weekend on a circuit on which he has shone previously, and his inability to generate sufficient heat in his Bridgestones left him 13th overall.
Williams
Nico Rosberg, 1m 16.548s, P6
Kazuki Nakajima, 1m 16.479s, P14
Rosberg has been on it all weekend for Williams and was delighted with his sixth fastest time in the FW30. Besides Massa, he was the happiest guy in the top six. Nakajima showed flashes of speed, but again failed to make Q3 after making too many errors on his quick laps.
Renault
Fernando Alonso, 1m 16.852s, P7
Nelson Piquet, 1m 16.633s, P17
Seventh seems to be Alonso’s current slot, and Renault’s modest goal in qualifying was to make it through to Q3. This he did easily, but Piquet struggled yet again and was only 17th after suffering a small brake problem in Q1.
Toyota
Jarno Trulli, 1m 17.203s, P8
Timo Glock, 1m 15.907s, P11
Trulli was grateful to make the top 10 again after all his problems had sapped some of the confidence you need to go really quickly here. Glock was really disappointed not to make the top 10 after running ahead of his team mate for much of practice. He said his first run in Q2 was good but that the last two sectors just didn’t come together on his second try.
Red Bull
Mark Webber, 1m 17.343s, P9
David Coulthard, 1m 15.839s, P10
Once again Red Bull got both cars into the top 10, with Webber ninth and Coulthard 10th. It was bittersweet, however. While the Australian had few problems, the Scot hit the wall hard exiting the chicane and was mystified why. He thought he might have locked a brake, which turned his RB4 sharp right into the wall, but even so the violence of the swerve surprised him and the team are currently investigating to see whether there was a mechanical fault that triggered the incident that prevented him from taking his place in Q3.
Honda
Jenson Button, 1m 16.101s, P12
Rubens Barrichello, 1m 16.537s, P15
Button complained that yellow flags prevented him from exploiting the potential of the Honda’s improved front-end grip. Barrichello complained of traffic and yellow flags too, but was cleared by the stewards of holding up Fisichella.
Toro Rosso
Sebastien Bourdais, 1m 16.806s, P16
Sebastian Vettel, 1m 16.955s, P18, starts P19
Bourdais said Massa held him up on his first run in Q1 in the STR3, but that it didn’t make much difference as he struggled to ‘read’ the new car. Locking brakes hampered his second run, and he also felt he lacked sheer grip. Vettel, meanwhile, felt that he should have stuck with the soft tyres instead of the supersofts and lost grip over the lap as a result. The German received a five-place penalty as his STR3’s gearbox was replaced prior to Saturday morning practice.
Force India
Adrian Sutil, 1m 17.225s, P19
Giancarlo Fisichella, 1m 17.823s, P20
Sutil said he quite liked the feel of his VJM01 but had to pass cars in the first sector of his good lap. On the positive side, the team had cured his tyre graining problem from Thursday. Fisichella’s 200th Grand Prix start will be from 20th place even though Vettel got a penalty, because the Italian also got one for having his gearbox replaced in the morning. He complained that Barrichello held him up, but the stewards deemed that the Brazilian had no case to answer.
Felipe Massa will start from pole position for the first time at Monaco on Sunday, and you have to go back to 2000 since Ferrari last did that. And to 1979 since a Ferrari poleman - future champion Jody Scheckter - actually won the race.
After locking out row one Massa and Kimi Raikkonen are understandably confident. However, McLaren’s Lewis Hamilton and Heikki Kovalainen say they are on race strategies that should allow them to challenge for victory. Much could depend on the weather, however, with rain forecast…
Ferrari
Felipe Massa, 1m 15.787s, P1
Kimi Raikkonen, 1m 15.815s, P4
Massa had a good look through Raikkonen’s telemetry after his first run, but picked up a lot more pace than he had expected to and admitted that he was very surprised to be on pole ahead of his team mate, who said he messed up Ste Devote on his second run and thus had to try and make up for that all through the rest of the lap. There is a suspicion that the F2008s were running lighter than the McLarens, but in any case they seem to maintain their performance with a fuel load, whereas the silver cars lose a little pace.
McLaren
Lewis Hamilton, 1m 15.839s, P3
Heikki Kovalainen, 1m 16.165s, P4
Hamilton said he was surprised by the pace of the Ferraris, and that although his McLaren was very quick in the first sector it lacked traction exiting Portier and the chicane, and that the pace just wasn’t there in the final sector. Kovalainen, who had clobbered the wall at the Swimming Pool in morning practice, and who is almost certainly running the heavier fuel load yet again, said he had a good run and was mystified why there was a relatively large gap to the three cars ahead of him.
BMW Sauber
Robert Kubica, 1m 16.171s, P5
Nick Heidfeld, 1m 16.455s, P13
Kubica was in his customary fifth place, but felt he might have gone a little quicker had he not had Hamilton in front of him on the out lap of his best run. While trying to create a big enough gap between his BMW Sauber and the McLaren he let his tyres cool too much, and suffered as a result. Nevertheless he was a lot happier than Heidfeld, who struggled all weekend on a circuit on which he has shone previously, and his inability to generate sufficient heat in his Bridgestones left him 13th overall.
Williams
Nico Rosberg, 1m 16.548s, P6
Kazuki Nakajima, 1m 16.479s, P14
Rosberg has been on it all weekend for Williams and was delighted with his sixth fastest time in the FW30. Besides Massa, he was the happiest guy in the top six. Nakajima showed flashes of speed, but again failed to make Q3 after making too many errors on his quick laps.
Renault
Fernando Alonso, 1m 16.852s, P7
Nelson Piquet, 1m 16.633s, P17
Seventh seems to be Alonso’s current slot, and Renault’s modest goal in qualifying was to make it through to Q3. This he did easily, but Piquet struggled yet again and was only 17th after suffering a small brake problem in Q1.
Toyota
Jarno Trulli, 1m 17.203s, P8
Timo Glock, 1m 15.907s, P11
Trulli was grateful to make the top 10 again after all his problems had sapped some of the confidence you need to go really quickly here. Glock was really disappointed not to make the top 10 after running ahead of his team mate for much of practice. He said his first run in Q2 was good but that the last two sectors just didn’t come together on his second try.
Red Bull
Mark Webber, 1m 17.343s, P9
David Coulthard, 1m 15.839s, P10
Once again Red Bull got both cars into the top 10, with Webber ninth and Coulthard 10th. It was bittersweet, however. While the Australian had few problems, the Scot hit the wall hard exiting the chicane and was mystified why. He thought he might have locked a brake, which turned his RB4 sharp right into the wall, but even so the violence of the swerve surprised him and the team are currently investigating to see whether there was a mechanical fault that triggered the incident that prevented him from taking his place in Q3.
Honda
Jenson Button, 1m 16.101s, P12
Rubens Barrichello, 1m 16.537s, P15
Button complained that yellow flags prevented him from exploiting the potential of the Honda’s improved front-end grip. Barrichello complained of traffic and yellow flags too, but was cleared by the stewards of holding up Fisichella.
Toro Rosso
Sebastien Bourdais, 1m 16.806s, P16
Sebastian Vettel, 1m 16.955s, P18, starts P19
Bourdais said Massa held him up on his first run in Q1 in the STR3, but that it didn’t make much difference as he struggled to ‘read’ the new car. Locking brakes hampered his second run, and he also felt he lacked sheer grip. Vettel, meanwhile, felt that he should have stuck with the soft tyres instead of the supersofts and lost grip over the lap as a result. The German received a five-place penalty as his STR3’s gearbox was replaced prior to Saturday morning practice.
Force India
Adrian Sutil, 1m 17.225s, P19
Giancarlo Fisichella, 1m 17.823s, P20
Sutil said he quite liked the feel of his VJM01 but had to pass cars in the first sector of his good lap. On the positive side, the team had cured his tyre graining problem from Thursday. Fisichella’s 200th Grand Prix start will be from 20th place even though Vettel got a penalty, because the Italian also got one for having his gearbox replaced in the morning. He complained that Barrichello held him up, but the stewards deemed that the Brazilian had no case to answer.
05-25-2008, 11:16 AM
#69
Nordschleife Master
UNREAL RACE!!! best race of the year. Terrible luck for Adrian Sutil. Just Terrible.
Great, GREAT race!!!
C.
Great, GREAT race!!!
C.
Last edited by Chads996; 05-25-2008 at 02:40 PM.
05-25-2008, 11:42 AM
#70
Formula One Spin Doctor
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LOL< those 2 ranking amateurs at Ferrari , lost the quinella , but got the victory ....
Great intense race , would have loved the force india to have finished in front of the ferrari , Hmmm wonder if Kimi got orders to take Sutil out ....
PROVISIONAL RACE RESULTS
The Monaco Grand Prix
Monte Carlo, Monaco, Monaco;
76 laps; 260.520km;
Weather: Wet.
Classified:
Pos Driver Team Time
1. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 2h00:42.272
2. Kubica BMW Sauber (B) + 3.069
3. Massa Ferrari (B) + 4.811
4. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) + 19.264
5. Vettel Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) + 24.657
6. Barrichello Honda (B) + 28.408
7. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) + 30.180
8. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes (B) + 33.191
9. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) + 33.793
10. Alonso Renault (B) + 1 lap
11. Button Honda (B) + 1 lap
12. Glock Toyota (B) + 1 lap
13. Trulli Toyota (B) + 1 lap
14. Heidfeld BMW Sauber (B) + 4 laps
Fastest lap: Raikkonen, 1:16.689
Not classified/retirements:
Driver Team On lap
Sutil Force India-Ferrari (B) 67
Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 58
Piquet Renault (B) 46
Fisichella Force India-Ferrari (B) 37
Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 13
Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 13
World Championship standings, round 6:
Drivers: Constructors:
1. Hamilton 38 1. Ferrari 69
2. Raikkonen 35 2. McLaren-Mercedes 53
3. Massa 34 3. BMW Sauber 52
4. Kubica 32 4. Williams-Toyota 15
5. Heidfeld 20 5. Red Bull-Renault 15
6. Kovalainen 15 6. Renault 9
7. Webber 15 7. Toyota 9
8. Alonso 9 8. Toro Rosso-Ferrari 6
9. Trulli 9 9. Honda 6
10. Rosberg 8
11. Nakajima 7
12. Vettel 4
13. Barrichello 3
14. Button 3
15. Bourdais 2
All timing unofficial
05-25-2008, 11:46 AM
#71
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If hammy didn't hit the wall I'd be forced to say he had a good race, but he did, so I'll complain about how he has the best luck ever with the timing of where he decides to puncture his tires (turkey last year) and its always right near the pits, also his timing of SC's is impeccable, second what was with kimi's moment that car realy snapped out, crazy car control at 180 (unlike coultard) but still what happened?, must have been a kimi zone out since the car was fine (seeing as how he set fast lap), third that penalty was a little ridiculous, either the FIA needs to clarify their rule, ferrari needs to get their act in reading the rules together, and the FIA shouldn't punish the driver for the team's mistake before the race even starts.
btw when is a decent team going to pick up webber, most underated driver in the last 10 years. The last three rain races:
ring 07'-3rd
Fuji 07'-2nd until punted out by team mate with 10 laps left
Monaco 08'- 4th
and tied with KOV (mclaren) in the points with the RED BULL
The guy is in top shape (big cyclist) is just as good as the top 4, has phenomenal car control, just much more mature and has lots more experience, but in this stupid era of F1 where all the drivers have to be teenagers or early twenties to be "competetive" is complete utter BS, driver are in their prime age 30-40 Schui could still be out there winning at age 39
ohh and if the FIA penalizes raik next race, it'll be such a farce, he got his punishment this race, he made a mistake, it cost him 4 points thats punishment enough, not a reason for the FIA to get their dirty little hands into something else, they already penalized him one to many times, it was a mistake not a stupid overtaking move, not a deliberate taking out of another car
btw when is a decent team going to pick up webber, most underated driver in the last 10 years. The last three rain races:
ring 07'-3rd
Fuji 07'-2nd until punted out by team mate with 10 laps left
Monaco 08'- 4th
and tied with KOV (mclaren) in the points with the RED BULL
The guy is in top shape (big cyclist) is just as good as the top 4, has phenomenal car control, just much more mature and has lots more experience, but in this stupid era of F1 where all the drivers have to be teenagers or early twenties to be "competetive" is complete utter BS, driver are in their prime age 30-40 Schui could still be out there winning at age 39
ohh and if the FIA penalizes raik next race, it'll be such a farce, he got his punishment this race, he made a mistake, it cost him 4 points thats punishment enough, not a reason for the FIA to get their dirty little hands into something else, they already penalized him one to many times, it was a mistake not a stupid overtaking move, not a deliberate taking out of another car
05-25-2008, 11:52 AM
#72
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If hammy didn't hit the wall I'd be forced to say he had a good race, but he did, so I'll complain about how he has the best luck ever with the timing of where he decides to puncture his tires (turkey last year) and its always right near the pits, also his timing of SC's is impeccable, second what was with kimi's moment that car realy snapped out, crazy car control at 180 (unlike coultard) but still what happened?, must have been a kimi zone out since the car was fine (seeing as how he set fast lap), third that penalty was a little ridiculous, either the FIA needs to clarify their rule, ferrari needs to get their act in reading the rules together, and the FIA shouldn't punish the driver for the team's mistake before the race even starts.
btw when is a decent team going to pick up webber, most underated driver in the last 10 years. The last three rain races:
ring 07'-3rd
Fuji 07'-2nd until punted out by team mate with 10 laps left
Monaco 08'- 4th
and tied with KOV (mclaren) in the points with the RED BULL
The guy is in top shape (big cyclist) is just as good as the top 4, has phenomenal car control, just much more mature and has lots more experience, but in this stupid era of F1 where all the drivers have to be teenagers or early twenties to be "competetive" is complete utter BS, driver are in their prime age 30-40 Schui could still be out there winning at age 39
btw when is a decent team going to pick up webber, most underated driver in the last 10 years. The last three rain races:
ring 07'-3rd
Fuji 07'-2nd until punted out by team mate with 10 laps left
Monaco 08'- 4th
and tied with KOV (mclaren) in the points with the RED BULL
The guy is in top shape (big cyclist) is just as good as the top 4, has phenomenal car control, just much more mature and has lots more experience, but in this stupid era of F1 where all the drivers have to be teenagers or early twenties to be "competetive" is complete utter BS, driver are in their prime age 30-40 Schui could still be out there winning at age 39
Agree with webber , ( aussie , no god daddy's , if he was germs man he would be in a BMW as Heidfield is totally pedestrian ) As to hammy , not any more lucky than others, re: kimi after having 22 off's still had a car that ran
A track with standing water it is always about luck as to who goes hydro.......
05-25-2008, 12:00 PM
#73
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Interesting race... Granted Hamilton did have the first safety car work in his favor, he drove a remarkable race. He was just beating the snot out of everyone. Too bad for Sutil, Raikkonen was lucky. Last time that happened Nakajima got penalized, Raikkonen driving for Ferrari wont get penalized most likely. Mosley's gotta go his Ferrari bias is son painfully evident, replacing him with Todt would clearly be a mistake too. That would be no different than replacing Mosley with Mansour Ojjeh. Tey need someone completely uninvolved with any team. Thats not so easy though.
05-25-2008, 12:20 PM
#75
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You were at the Hairpin weren't you Blair? Must have been cool especially to see Rosberg slip by Button as they were letting Massa through. Also Freddy Alonso being a dunce and trying to pass on the inside there. Hope you had a great time, I'm sure you did.