BostonDMD

I agree with you 100%.....

I lapped cup cars in my green group, that only means that some slow poke can buy an expensive track car, that is all.....

race911

To likely hijack this and take it in another direction.........what's with all the hierarchy and all the colors? Like Jack alluded to, out here we kinda just do: beginner, intermediate, advanced. Pretty simple to figure out where you belong. And I can't remember when I've really seen, or heard of, a gross mis-placement.

Bull

That would be great, but our events sell out and usually have more attendees than can be accommodated in three run groups. We often end up with Beginner (no experience), Novice (some days experience), Intermediate, Advanced and an Instructor run group for the 40-50 Instructors. Beginner and Novice are usually combined on the longer tracks like VIR and Watkins Glen.

For our weekday events, we can often stay with 3 run groups, as we are doing this coming Monday and Tuesday at Summit Point.

Tom R.

i agree, and think it is more like who wants to leave less on the wall. my whole car was probably worth less than his fender.

but, if i am lapping a car, is it really just a reflection of the other's inability, or......

mhm993

Tom:
spoke with Ronniegirl last week but she didn't mention Dave was working a rangers game. Very cool if true>

And, yes, I feel your pain re certain east coast DE issues. I dealt with it by joining an additional region with calmer karma.

I would for sure burn up another set of street tires before mounting the r compounds--my two cents.

Palting

I also lap Cup cars and racing cars, and this was in the black group. The fact that it was cold and the track had frost/water and that they were on race rubber and I was on street tires had absolutely nothing to do with it . That was fun.

I'll share my first R-compound experience. On the long track DE, I was on the intermediate group (blue), just learning and practicing throttle steering and threshold braking, passing everyone, thinking I was a hot shot. I got my first set of R-compounds for free by winning a season of autocross. Of course, I just had to have the R-compounds on the very next DE. The R-compound tires really stuck, and the car would not rotate. I kept increasing my speed, but then I got my speed up to a point where I didn't dare try to rotate. Things were happening so fast, I felt I didn't have the reflexes and skill to respond quick enough. I WAS going faster, but I was actually more miserable and anxious. Not fun at all. Thank goodness it was a one day DE. Kept those puppies wrapped up until I got comfortable sliding the car around with consistency and precision on street tires. Once I got there, that increase in speed by the R-compounds was a lot more easy to deal with. By then I was in the advanced group.

race911

I guess I just don't get the R compound v. street tire thing. You're just driving a damn car, the limits are what they are. My first track day period (had never autocrossed, nothing) I had R compounds. My next track weekend two weeks later was an SCCA licensing school, same car, same tires. You drive what you got..................

ncp

Palting- what type of R-compounds are you referring to? Are you talking about a racing slick or a transitional R-compound? I condider myself an intermediate lapper and am thinking about moving from my max summer tire (ie, PS2, Bridgstone, etc) to an R-888 or MPSC... or what I would consider a transitional tire.

Comments?

Nick

jeeper31

Stick with the street tires. Last season when it started to rain I switched to my street tires. The rain didn't last and I went out in the dry with the streets. I actually think I drove better and maybe faster than with the R's. I also enjoyed hearing the tires again which was helpful in giving me an indication of how I was driving.

prg

You must be new here.
Agonizing over R compound tires is one of the preferred activities on rennlist.

Palting

I'm referring to all R-compounds. An R-compound is an R-compound, whether slicks or DOT approved. All it means is that one is legal to drive to and from the track whereas one is not. I include, as most people would, RA-1/R888 and MPSC in that category. My first R-compound tire was the Dunlop SuperSport Race, a DOT approved tire that they don't make anymore.

You can go with R-compounds, "transitional" or whatever, anytime you want to. I just think that you will learn car control better and faster on street tires because it will allow you to experiment and learn at lower speeds. Once you get the techniques, moves, and responses down, and train your butt sensor to send signals directly to your hands and feet, it will be a lot easier to transition those to any R-compound at higher speeds, than it is to learn them de-novo at the higher speeds.

ncp

Got it, thanks.

Nick

race911

No doubt. I just get a laugh out of all the back-and-forth commentary. If you want to learn car control, go find a '73S. I took it one step further 28 years ago with a '68S wannabe, so no torque but you'd better know (or figure out quickly) what the hell you're doing. In '83, with the showroom stock car I mentioned above, the Yokohama A001R was new in the US. Even in a 185/70-13 on an RX-7.......wow. Of course you could say a modern mediocre street tire works better than those did. But you still had limits to learn in any case.

Palting

LOL!! It would be nice if we had a stable of cars to choose from. In real life, most DE people bring whatever is the one car they have, and try to maximize their learning on that one car. I know one excellent instructor who drives nothing but an old VW Rabbit, but can whip that car faster around the track than most of the other drivers in their newer cars. I am sure that at some time early in his track experience it was important to him whether moving on to R-compounds was a good idea or not.

It seems you had a choice of cars but no choice in tires, so of course, the question is unimportant to you. We, the lowly ones, have no choice in cars, but, we do have a choice in tires. We ponder the answer to that all important question with appropriate gravity, sincerity, solemnity, and reverence. The answer to that question, "When can I use R-compounds?', is second in importance only to the answer to the eternal question "Define SEX". And, we must ponder the answers deeply, as we smoke our cigar.

Potomac-Greg

Palting
996 C4S - His
987 S - Hers
S80 T6 Volvo
'08 Suburban LTZ
Kia Sportage AWD

You have choice. You simply chose multiple street cars! For the annual fuel bill on that Suburban, you could have a 944 track ho!