hummm, there's some big chest puffing going on here!

 

you would be surprised how much is psychological!

I think you are going about it right. What type of times were you running at T-hill again? IM curious, as 70heat cycles, even on a light car, is quite a few!

The key thing is to get more and more comfortable, so that you are able to drive around and through subtle differences with your car. That's what makes this sport so much fun, as you can keep on getting better.

Mk

 

Im about 48, fully puffed?

Hey, its just that ive heard "my tires were this brand, so thats why i was 2 seconds slower, that wing gave me 3 seconds, i can really feel that 5hp, that swaybar gave me 3 seconds", etc etc.

The reality, is much of the racing bolt on stuff is just fractions of a second, and most are not much faster when you really dig into to it. Often, the difference of two types of tires is not mesured in times, but in feel and confidence (or lack of)

what i can tell you from experience, is that street tires are about 4 seconds slower than DOTs (normal hard ones) and that heat cycled old S03s are not much better when they are heat cycled to death. (even if they show wear holes), while RA1s are pretty close to .5 seconds from new all the way to cords, even with a lot of heat cycles on them. And, most DOT tires are probably within about .5 second of eachother on a track 2miles + long.
The main difference is probably how well they wear, how feel after a few laps, and /or at the end of the race as well as on different tempurature days.

If i could be given 2 full seconds at Laguna Seca, for a new hoosier, i would go out and buy my first new tire since 2001 tomorrow, and be glad writing the check. Hmmmm, my best time 1:38.9 going to a 1:36.9 in a bone stock engined 928 and a set of headers? 3 seconds faster than Max Angelleli in a new GT3 street car on DOT R Michelins?


Mk

 

My spring times were a consistent, easy 2:06, which dropped to 2:07/08 by September. I will admit that I was under driving the car in the beginning and much more comfortable at the end of the season. The tires stayed very forgiving at the limit all the way to end of their time on my car. It took some time to learn how to get to the limit of the tires. I tried multiple lines and brake points. Learned how to slide the car and keep it mostly under control. I had a new set mounted and sitting in the garage all year! Your comments about being comfortable with a tire are well taken. I have higher expectations for this season. The lap times will tell.

 

Here's a data point for you. A 964 euro cup running at at 2760 lbs + driver on Hoosiers/MPSCs and did high 2:10s at Watkins Glen. Same cars now run ~200lbs lighter and Dunlops slicks with a best time of 2:05.2. Also, at the recent Lime Rock race, old Dunlops were in the 59.5 second range, and with fresh tires 58.6-58.9 (also 964 cups).

 

Did we have a consensus?...........

Not quite sure, but I will stick with the Hoosiers being faster....... because my mentors said so.....

 

Sounds about right to me. thats a long track compared to the Lagunas and Infinions of the world. But, 2:10 to a 2:05 is 5 seconds. 200lbs has been shown to hurt about a second or two, and slicks are usually 2 seconds faster, 3 on a longer track. Again, the point of all this, is that the RA1 would probably be right there, probably in the .5 to maybe 1 second because the track is so long.
Slicks, maybe like old SO3's, can really be bad after the get heat cycled. I remember Anderson in his 550hp 928 talking about his car being completely undriveable with some used slicks he aquired. ( He has not quite perfected the dumpster dive QA process ) I was in denial with a set that looked good that i got from Craig of POC after a laguna event. It wasnt until i really tried to pull a good lap time at Thunderhill, where my lap times are never more than .5 second apart, i couldnt find the missing 2 full seconds. Then, put on the commuter set of RA1s, and i was in heaven. 2 seconds back, and time was there. Never drove a used S03 again.

Limerock times seem pretty believable for good vs worn slicks too.

mk

 

4 seconds difference for me at the Glen (comparing race times)

 

Recap: Hoosiers are faster. Chest puffing is fun(ny).

 

Bryan,

We have a way to see once and for all.

I just got a hold of a brand new set of hoosiers R6s (well almost brand new, they had 2 heat cycles on them , one of which was in the rain a year ago. ) As long as 1 year of sitting around doesnt hurt, this will be a good comparison.

Anyone that knows me, knows my lap times are pretty consistant at Laguna. (i.e. 1:39.0 +/- .3 over the last 3 years) . We also race there more than any group in the world every year. However, I just put in the bigger motor with 3 races left last seasona and proved that it provided 1-1.5 seconds a lap improvement (near 50hp). same difference has been found so far this season too. 1:37.7 is my best at laguna now, and we are going next weekend for the double regional SCCA ITE races. Pirelli Cup Porsche GT3s will be there as well.

Anyway, Im guessing a full second improvement and Im goning to push them hard to see how they do. I would love to see 2 seconds ( 1:35.7) but think it will be more like 1:36.7 when its all said and done.

Sure, maybe i forgot how to drive hoosiers and Ill be slower . After all, its been over 8 years since my last decent set of R3s.

I'm pretty excited to see how they work out.

mk

 

MK
2 heat cycle hoosiers.....damm how did you score those!!!

Everyone swears by the 2 second rule...& the RA1's you've been running for years are a bit on the "broken in" side.......you might even be able to turn up your wing to get a bit more downforce?

 

I always am talking about my used tires I know, but in actuality, the "A" set of 2 sets I use during a race weekend, are always REAL good RA1s. This last set came off the Road Atlanta WCGT racers that got mostly rain that weekend. I have 2 sets of those and they look like they just came off the shaving machine from Toyo. The only time Ive run less than perfect used Toyos were those big fronts I was experimenting with. now, since bigger is better up front, next time we put RA1s up front, they will be the new stuff.

I just put on an "A" set of RA1s for this next Laguna race, but the fronts are 275s, and I will mount up the "B" rims with the almost New Hoosiers.

I scored them from the Griggs Racing Mustange Team. Ill tell you more about that later.

Mk

 

FWIW......after 2 CR on Hoosiers, there is no way I am going back to Toyos.....

 

They said its going to be like CRACK! I hope not! My only hope is one of the BMW racers and the C5 Vet racer that put on a new set of R6s and didnt see much time at all. I have a feeling that there will be a second to be found with the sticky meats. Funny, my response to your comment is:
" After 10 heat cycles on the Hoosiers and 2 Races on the Toyos, there was no way I was going back to Hoosiers". However, that was back in 2002.

 

Would it be out of the question to make an assumption based on the differing characteristics between the Hoos and Toyo, that you could setup the suspension a little softer w the Hoos and rely on the extra grip provided by the compound, yet not tempt them into a sudden slip by having your sway bars set to hard for example?