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Critique my VIR vid please (be gentle)

 
Old 03-23-2008, 11:22 PM
  #46  
wanna911
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Originally Posted by ZAPmobile View Post
wanna 911,

I guess my response to you was not only directed to you but to anyone who wants to post a video with a view to getting a critque. Please don't be offended, as that is not what people are usually trying to do. When you post a video, make sure it is the best one, not the one that merits excuses such as, "Well, I did much better later." Instead, let's see that much-better-later video.

Remember, we can only critique what we see, not what happened at some other time.

Margo and I not only hop in a lot of cars with people who want to improve their driving, but we ask people whom we respect to hop in with us. It makes us better drivers and better instructors.

A lot of people post lap times. I am frankly not overly impressed with lap times, because they do not always reflect the skill of a driver. Take someone turning something in the 2:09-10 range in a 500hp car. Am I overwhelmed by that? Not at all. I am much more impressed with someone doing a 2:10 in a 250hp car that meets all the PCA specs of a stock class racer.

If you really want to be impressed with lap times and what it takes to be a top-notch driver, look at Andy Lally, Spencer Pumpelly, Wolf Heinzler, and Leh King who do 1:52s in qualifying and can run 1:55s all day long without breaking a sweat in a 420hp car.

When I ask for a critique, I realize that the input usually has merit, and I am thankful for it. I do not need to make excuses, as that is non-productive. If I have a student who continually makes excuses, I will teach him to be safe on the track,of course, but will I clue him in to the inner secrets of going fast? Absolutely not! That's reserved for those who really want to improve.
Ok, you'll have to forgive me but the excuse line is getting old to me. I have no need to offer excuses to anyone here, I am not getting paid by anyone to drive and no one decides my lines but me. In fact I saw lines from many guys that differ from what have appeared in this thread, I've also watched videos of lines that differed. And I'm not talking about slow guys either. I garauntee I could ask some other guys and their advise may differ. Therefore there is no law for me to have to live up to in order for me to have to justify anything. I simply stated what I was thinking going into the weekend. IMO if I knew the right line for MY car before hand and didnt follow it and gave a reason it would be an excuse. But for my intents and purposes the line worked and was successful in making some pretty fast laps and keeping me safe. The second being the most important goal of my weekend. That will change in future excursions on that track which is why I posted the thread. I dont owe anybody an excuse. As far as critique, it was given and I accepted it and agreed.

I started the thread without lap times and didnt post my fastest ones because I wanted feedback on these particular laps. I watched the hours of video I have many times and picked these because they were the most in line with what I came away with for the weekend. Between experimenting with different things and some mis shifts (I.E. things I already know what I did wrong) these were a couple of good laps to go by as they fit my initial comfort zone for the track. There are others but these are the first ones I got to.

Thanks again for the feedback.
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Old 03-24-2008, 07:48 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by 930man View Post
im still feeling warm and fuzzy!!!!
MattE... you are to busy polishing that wing .... and all that bling to be out socializing....

i got the check thanks by the way..
...oh no he didn't
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Old 03-24-2008, 08:32 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by 38D View Post
Coasting/Maintenance throttle has nothing to do with trail braking. You need to be getting back on the gas by the apex, not once you are straight. While you may not have been caught by many cars, that is because you have a very fast car and the other drivers were not that good.
I experienced this phenomenom first hand this past weekend at the Sebring short course with Chin. This was my first time driving a low hp car in a DE (BMW 325). I waved just about everyone by me, including a lot of lower hp cars (Miata's). Previously, in my GT3, I didn't wave more than one or two people by in a session and many times I didn't wave anyone by in a session. This confirmed for me that I've made the right choice in going to the lower hp car. Once I can pass the higher hp cars, I'll go buy myself another 996 GT3! (if they are still available-I suspect this car will be a big time collector's item).
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Old 03-24-2008, 08:35 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Mark Dreyer View Post
I experienced this phenomenom first hand this past weekend at the Sebring short course with Chin. This was my first time driving a low hp car in a DE (BMW 325). I waved just about everyone by me, including a lot of lower hp cars (Miata's). Previously, in my GT3, I didn't wave more than one or two people by in a session and many times I didn't wave anyone by in a session. This confirmed for me that I've made the right choice in going to the lower hp car. Once I can pass the higher hp cars, I'll go buy myself another 996 GT3! (if they are still available-I suspect this car will be a big time collector's item).
You have DEFINITELY made the right choice. It will be frustrating, but there is no easier way to learn, and no better way to to remove the scales from your eyes that can develop when you have a lot of HP and electronic aids to back you up. Once you learn how to drive a momentum car, you should be able to be very fast when you return to a higher HP car. Just try not to develop bad on/off throttle habits, which is easy to do when the throttle doesn't have that much impact.
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Old 03-24-2008, 09:43 AM
  #50  
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TD,

Can you explain "bad on/off throttle habits" in a bit more detail? Thanks for your input.
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Old 03-24-2008, 09:55 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Mark Dreyer View Post
TD,

Can you explain "bad on/off throttle habits" in a bit more detail? Thanks for your input.
When you have a significant amount of HP, you must be (or at least should be) careful about application of the throttle. Specifically, you should roll on the throttle as if you have an egg between your foot and the pedal, rather than just mashing it down when you are ready to go. Many, many newbie drivers coast through corners (or use maintenance throttle) and then mash the throttle down at track out when the car is straight. This is a very bad habit. Unfortunately, when you move to a low HP car, you may find yourself frustrated that giving the car throttle really has very little impact. So, you find yourself getting on the throttle pretty agressively (i.e., treating the throttle like an on/off switch) even before the apex because you can get away with it. Right before I sold my race car, I was working a lot with heavy trailbraking and using the throttle to stop rotation. Since you are nervous about stopping rotation it is easy to be too aggressive with the throttle under those circumstances.

Now that I have the club coupe, I have noticed that I developed a bad habit of being too "on/off" with throttle application (which is particularly noticeable when you have the hair/trigger aggressive throttle mapping associated with "sport mode"). So, the trick would be to learn how to respect the throttle pedal on a low hp car even though it doesn't matter as much so that you do not develop bad habits that could bite you when you move to a higher HP car.
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Old 03-24-2008, 10:13 AM
  #52  
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Got it. So in other words, I should treat the throttle the same in the low hp car as I did in the high hp car. By not overbraking coming into the turns (ie maintaining momentum) hopefully I'll feel less inclined to have to mash the pedal coming out of the apex and thus less likely to develop bad habits?
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Old 03-24-2008, 10:16 AM
  #53  
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Yes. I am sure you will be fine. Just keep in mind that just because you can get away with something doesn't mean you should. I only mentioned the throttle because that is one of my weaknesses, which I only realized after moving from 147 hp to 381 hp (at the crank not at the wheel so I guess I am still low HP in comparison to some of the guys in this thread )
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Old 03-24-2008, 11:05 AM
  #54  
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TD,

In the vein of this discussion, you clearly have the touch on the throttle and excellent driving technique. It's great seeing someone like Mark asking more questions and learning from your expertise. I, for one, would love to have you come out in our car with me if you are ever at VIR. Arnie echoes my sentiments.

Of course, we have to add an excuse ... if our car stays running on the track. We have had a spate of mechanical bad luck.

Take care,

TBC/Margo
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Old 03-24-2008, 11:20 AM
  #55  
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Thanks for the kind words, Margo.

I assure you that I am no expert. Rather, I have benefited from two things: 1) many excellent drivers and instructors have taken me under their wing and spent a lot of time teaching me both the theory and the technique for driving safely and fast; and 2) I have made so many mistakes in my own driving that I have never suffered from a lack of learning opportunities.

I am always happy to share with others the knowledge that far better drivers than I have shared with me.
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:01 PM
  #56  
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Great advice here from TD - he explains things very well and is an excellent driver (I have had the pleasure of riding with him) AND he learns from each session.

Let me add one thing and that is to be sure not to confuse smooth application with slow application. Braking is a good example - some newer drivers seem to think you need a second or more to smoothly apply the brakes from the time you lift to full brake pressure. My data shows that I take ~0.20 seconds to hit max brake pressure and most people think I am pretty smooth. According to my data coach, most pros do this in 0.15 seconds - smooth AND fast application.

Throttle is a bit different as some cars demand slow application (like a high HP) while others allow you to be as fast on the throttle as you can while still being smooth (small fraction of a second).
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:05 PM
  #57  
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Thanks Mark, I really appreciate the comment. You are one of the great drivers and instructors I was talking about. And yes, that is a great clarification. That is what I meant. You often need to be on the gas quickly, but you still need to be smooth. I realized only after I started driving the club coupe with higher HP that my smoothness of throttle application had suffered a bit due to laziness I had developed while driving my ex race car.
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Old 03-25-2008, 09:15 AM
  #58  
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Throttle and steering wheel should act connected high or low hp car. As you are opening up the wheel you should be giving all the gas that the reduced steering angle will afford. The only real difference in high or low hp is how soon you hit the floor board during the wheel unwind. soem corners give drivers code brown moments during power on. I get leg cramps from deforming the floorboard in some futile attempt at getting blood from a small stone.

All inputs need to be at the cars pace. You need to plan and act at the reaction pace of the car not yours. You can be too slow in input and you can also be too fast. Most of us mortals are both.

Fear not what you ask for. Fear not hearing what you ask for.
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:12 AM
  #59  
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I think reading "Speed Secrets" and driving a low(er) HP car should be mandatory to enter DE..
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:45 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Gary R. View Post
I think reading "Speed Secrets" and driving a low(er) HP car should be mandatory to enter DE..
What a great idea, we know Ross Bentley, his whole philosophy on mental preparation is invaluable.
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