weneversleep

I've been running DEs for about 3 years, with 24 events (48 days on track) under my belt at various tracks around Texas. I currently run in the White run group with PCA, which down here in Texas is the "advanced" group (instructor group is the only "higher" group).

Why do I give this driving resume? Because, interestingly enough, I've run all of those events on street tires. Good street tires (PS2, RE01R), but street tires nonetheless. But, I think the time has come to "graduate" to race tires, since I truly feel like I'm driving the car at the limit of street tires, and have been told this by numerous instructors. In addition, I'm hitting ABS too early with race pads/street tires, the street tires are wearing out too quickly because of the abuse I now give them on the track, etc. etc. Finally, I now have an alignment (almost -3 neg camber up front, -2 in the rear) that can handle race tires.

So, I have Toyo R888s on order, along with 4 wheels.

My question is: any pointers for driving with the race tires? Anything to be careful of? Anything I need to know about break-in and making them last?

I realize that grip will obviously be higher, and that they will let go in a much quicker manner than street tires, but I'll have to learn to deal with that. I'll plan on dialing it back a few notches at my next event while I get used to the feel, and slowly ramping it up. Any other suggestions?

Or, should I just forget this race tire nonsense for DEs, and just stay on street tires, because they're more fun anyway?

schwank

The RA-1 (and thus I assume R888) still has a good amount of feel before they let go. I too was worried about this when switching from street tires, but I found them to still have lots of feedback. They definitely howl before they go sliding.

And the grip is sooooo nice!

shustermeister

make sure you get them up to temperature before you push hard, ask around on recommended pressures for that tire for your car, make sure you check your suspension and hubs/bearings throughout the year (more grip = more stress on the components), enjoy the heck out of shorter stopping distances and much more corner speed

TraqGear

Great tires. Really don't need much warm up...one lap and I'm on it. You won't get the feedback that you get from street tires, but they will give you some noise. They'll be fun and you should be faster by the end of the weekend. Keep check on your pressures though...makes a BIG difference. I'm not sure what is recommended for your car. You can rotate them, run them any direction and flip them on them rim to get the most life out of them, but never in the rain. In fact, mine suck running them in wet conditions even mounted in the proper direction. Bob Woodman has the best price I've seen.

JackOlsen

The R888 is the new, improved version of the RA1. I haven't driven the R888, yet, but if it's like the RA1, you should be pleasantly surprised by the way the tire behaves. With 24 DEs out of the way, the snap-loose characteristics of stickier r compounds shouldn't be a problem for you -- partly because the Toyos aren't the stickiest tires out there, and partly because your driving style at this point should have become fairly precise. From lap to lap, you're not lurching into corners on wildly different lines or with wildly different speeds, like beginners tend to do. This makes r compounds a bad idea for newbies, but probably a good idea for you.

The r compounds will be quieter, too -- less audio feedback. And of course, they're going to cost you more. I went through three sets of RA1s a year. R888s might not last as long.

I've done a lot of competitive driving on street tires, so I can tell you some of the things you'll notice that will be different. With street tires, it takes longer to bring the tires up to temperature, and the window where they're at their best is pretty short. The BFGoodriches g-force KDs I used to run on would take a couple of laps to warm up, and then have maybe three good laps in them before performance would start to fall off. By the end of the day, a kind of heat soak phenomenon would make them significantly slower than they were in the morning, too. With Toyos, you'll notice a much broader 'shelf' of good performance. They'll warm up more quickly, and have more good laps in them before they start to taper off.

I'd like to say that r compounds like the Toyos will be more sensitive to tire pressures, but the fact is that street tires are pretty sensitive to small pressure changes, too. Most drivers simply don't notice the changes. A lot of people run the RA1 at significantly lower pressures than Toyo suggests, especially with lighter Porsches. The R888 will probably be similar, this way, but I haven't seen enough data on the new version yet to say. I run RA1s in the 27 pound range hot on my 2500-pound car. I think Toyo suggests high 30s or 40.

Keep an eye on the way they're wearing. You might need to unmount the tires halfway through their lifespan and switch left tires with right to even out the wear on the outside shoulders, even with your camber. Better still, get or borrow a probe-type pyrometer and spend a day playing with suspension settings and pressures to work out what's best for your car.

911S3.6

The only way to really know what tire pressures to run on your particular car is to check the tires hot off the track with a pyrometer. Generally good to have an assistant to help you. Run some hot laps, come in the pit lane and stop. He should immediately take readings on the outside, middle and inside of each tire, all four tires. The manufacturer will list the optimum heat temps for the R888 or subst.
Optimum readings should show very close numbers across the tread width. Variations in temps will mean
either lowering or raising the pressure until you have the desired temps.
You should keep a log, with an accompanying sketch of the car's four corners, so you can do it the same way each time until it's where you want. At that point, you log your optimum temps for each tire, and that is what you will use unless you change the car's set up.
Obviously, you will want to start out cold in the morning with a few pounds less than that optimum to compensate for the tires warming up the first few laps.
Fred Puhn's book, How to Make Your Car Handle, is a great resource for learning.

Hope this helps.
Nick

911S3.6

...Oh Yeah,
What Jack said. Recommended pressures by manufacturer are just that, recommendations. Each car is different and I, like Jack, run F27 R 29 (+) or (-) on a car that weighs 2280 lbs dry.
Heavier cars will run more pressure IIRC.

Crazy Canuck

You'll like them. Very progressive.

Be mindful of what the other guys on this thread have posted.

TR6

+1. I just made the switch to RA1's (can't speak about R888). They are stickier than street tires but they aren't like real R comps like hoosiers, from what I've been told. They still have much of the street tire characteristics and will still slide with relatively good feedback. You'll love them. Think of them as a really really really sticky street tire.

mark kibort

the nice thing about the RA1s is that they really dont get hard and slippery as they age like hoosiers. they seem to stick real way , all the way to the cords.
Im looking forward to trying out the R888s this season. (If i can raid the garbage cans of the Long Beach Grand prix )

mk

Bryan Watts

With that much track time, just go drive. You should be able to feel out any differences and adapt pretty quickly by now.

J richard

One thing to be aware of is with the additional grip you will be putting much more heat into the brakes. Your tires were probably your weak link with street tires. This shouldn't be too much trouble if your brakes are in good shape, but be prepared for potential overheating and fade, check or change your fluid and you might want to look at a higher performance pad. You will be running deeper into the corners, and the brake zone....

But you'll love the extra stick....

mdrums

I've worn out some PS2's also and you will find the Toyo tires to be less expensive to replace.

weneversleep

I think you meant "your brakes were probably your weakest link with street tires".

Actually, I'm running Hawk HT-10 race pads, so the street tires were actually limiting the brakes. Because the brakes were so powerful, they were overwhelming the street tires and causing premature ABS activation.

But thanks for the advice; I can't wait to feel what good brakes with race tires are like!

JackOlsen

He meant that the street tires' lack of grip (relatively speaking) meant you weren't working the brakes as hard as you will with Toyos. He's talking about cooking your brakes -- the sudden (or gradual) fade that comes from the fluid boiling and gasses being released into the hydraulic lines. It can cause anything from a spongy brake pedal to a sudden loss of all brakes.

As you move to grippier tires, you have to find ways to shed heat from your brakes. If you're lucky, it means adding cooling ducts. If the problem is worse, it can be the reason you go to larger calipers and rotors.

If you're worried about ABS, make sure you're using the same diameter tires your car came with stock. If your tires are too tall or too short, you can get unpredictable behavior from the ABS brain.