DanR

Hi Guys,

Just looking for your opinions on my current and future run groups

I have just moved to US having lived overseas for a number of years and originally being from the UK. I have done about 6 DE events and 4 days at a skip barber type school and about 6 autocross over the past 3 years however not had the time to do any more, on top of this I have done lots of karting in the past and had several race wins . I am normally pretty quick in a car and did an autocross event last year in the US and won my class first time out. Just letting you know a rough background to my limited driving experience (although always had fast cars and currently have a 997 so am used to speed)

I have just bought a track prepared 944 turbo and hope to do at least 25 DE's this year my first being at summit point in March. What run group do you think I would start off in and how quickly am I likely to progress (I know it all depends on individual ability but give me estimates on a quick learner!!!)

I want this really as a guide to how quick someone can progress run groups on the premise that run groups indicated ability (I want to know how quickly someone can progress from my experience) as I am not interested in just bragging on group color. To be honest I want to learn as much as I can from the instrctors.

Cheers for any thoughts

Dan

SundayDriver

It is going to depend on the group. When I moved to Ohio, I came with an SCCA National license, a fair number of races, quite a few DEs in the fast group on the west coast. I also had a 525HP 993TT.

One PCA chapter told me I had to start in the slowest group and after 3 events they could evaluate me to see if I was ready to move up. Talk about a safety hazard. I never ran with them.

Another PCA chapter said I should be in the fast group but would need a checkout ride with an instructor to verify. After 2 laps he said I was good to go. It was a fairly new track to me so I asked him to guide me around the rain line.

Different as night and day. With your background, I would hope you would get the treatment from the second group.

tkerrmd

you would start in blue in our region, which is advanced student instructed. If you and your instructor where comfortable with your skill and the track by the end of the first day you could probably get a check off ride for solo.

rodneyr

As said above it really depends on the group. One extreme would be Porsche PCA CVR and they would probably put you in the beginner group regardless of previous experience. On the other hand, with your experience you would most likely move up quickly. Typically, you need two sign-offs in a group to move up to the next group. Some groups will let you move up say in your 3rd session others will make you wait until their next DE event.

So, if they put you an a lower run group you will shine and standout. Be patient or try another group if you don't like your progress.

DarkSideDE

Dan - Since you are a new arrival to the colonies, may I suggest that no matter the track you are at, you ask the organizers to stick an instructor into your car. This is great for two reasons, the first, you will learn the line of each track that much quicker and you will meet new track people where ever you go. Please allow the group to access if they feel you need more "tips" from an instructor or if you are fine for solo. Just leave the ego home -- and keep looking to see who wants to pass. :-)

Also, if you are in the neighborhood May 3-4 - we'd love for you to come on down to Roebling Road Raceway, just outside of Savannah - plenty of history and good for touring.

www.darksidede.com

himself

25 DE's is way more than even appear on our schedule down here. In Texas, you might find 10 if you are diligent and have a very flexible schedule, and are willing to travel. Good luck on 25!

As for progress, that really depends on you. Even if you start in the slowest group - you will get bumped quickly if your skill merits. That is, if you are substantially faster than the green drivers, you will be a hazard to THEM, and you will probably be bumped to blue almost immediately. If you are too fast for blue, you might even get moved to yellow in one weekend.

With the equivalent of about 10 events (6 DE's, 1 school, + autocross), I would guess you would go into an intermediate instructed group by the end of the first day. You might end up in an advanced group, but I would wager this would not happen your first event in the states.

-td

deep_uv

There are well over 25 DE's available to us Texans if you look around. PCA, BMWCCA, TWSMSC, Driver's edge all do 6+ or so events a year each at 4 or 5 different tracks.

Gator_86_951

25 is entirely possible in the NE. I am facing a similar issue and I need to email the Potomac region DE person to explain my situation. I have been a solo driver in tkerrmd's region for a while, although my last bit of seat time was 48 hours of sebring last year.

I might see you at an event! I don't plan on moving until april though. I think my first event, also in a 944 turbo, will be at summit point in April. Look for the faded red 944 turbo with gator heads on the side.

fuenfer

Let me add my two cents here, as I am also currently making my way through the run groups (though I didn't start with the experience you have).

All of these regions have different styles. I think one of the NJ regions is pretty flexible about run group assignments, while another one nearby is pretty strict (unless you're cozy with "management," in which case you seem to move up run groups very easily). Another region in the area told a Skip Barber instructor (and professional racer) that he'd need to start in the green run group, do 3 or 4 events, after which he might be moved up to yellow.

Some regions are formal about promotions (i.e., you'll have a check-off ride to be moved up to the next run group) whereas other regions are more about how many people have signed up, and their relative experience.

You'll get a feel for how each region runs things as you do more DEs. Enjoy the time you spend with each run group and each region -- they all have different styles and methods of doing things, and it's fun to learn different things from each.

Sean F

Dan, do yourself a favor and start in green. Don't be in a hurry just yet. You'll be learning new tracks and finding your way around the PCA world in the area. The instructors will help you know when you're ready to move up. You can't always count on them to move you up, but you can count on them to let you know if you're ready. Some of my moves up were done by instructors making the change, some after several instructors told me I was ready and I put in a request for a check out ride with the Chief Instructor. Take it slow. What you're going to find is that when you move into the non-instructed groups is when you'll realize how much you need instruction and then it's harder to get.

Willard Bridgham 3

Start in green anywhere you run.

If your skills are good, you'll stick out like a turd in a punch bowl in green and you'll move in a hurry when the chief instructor notices......which he will.

MUSSBERGER

If you don't belong there it won't be long.

trumperZ06

As others have said... relax,. the instructor will know if you are in the wrong run group.

We try to have driver's in the correct group based on ability. One problem we try to avoid, is having a really good driver in with the novice group. Most of the time, it's the other way around, a driver thinks he belongs in an advanced group... when he's not ready.

A few year's ago... I ran with a local 986 Boxer club and was placed in Novice...
1st time out we gridded at the front, three laps later the instructor told me to pull-in.

He went to the chief instructor and I was moved into the advanced/instructor's group.

I would expect this to be more typical today... it's really safer for all involved... screw the politics.

Mikelly

For me, it's been a "re-education" process.

You go from some clubs that put you in the fast group (which to them is fast) and you have a great time, show good car control, and are fast in "that group/those groups" and then move to PCA and "think" you're fast.

The instructors Ive had with PCA are far and away much better than any other club I've run with. It's a more focused approach to safety and car control than I was used to.

As the others have said, take your time, let them place you where they think you should be, and see how it works out. As I found out last year, they'll bump you up when you're ready. Not when you think you're ready, but when you're ready.

Bottom line is if you aren't learning, you're just wasting money... Most of last year, I wasted money.

From September on, I felt like I was back in school and it felt good.
Mike

Gary R.

Dan - I agree with what the last few guys have said, just state your experience and be sure to (with humility I might add..), express that you are happy to start in the lowest group and let the instructor(s) be the judge for proper placement. If you are in the wrong group they will move you, trust me. I am at a point where I have to plan a day ahead most times to get an instructor to get in my right seat, take FULL advantage of it while you can!

Remember these two things about the instructors -

Don't try and impress them, you can't.
Don't try and scare them, they already are..

love that...