Skiing and HPDE, is there a connection?.......
02-11-2008, 10:12 AM
#31
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Just what I was going to say!
Paolo - I can hook you up with Giorgio Rocca if you want to learn from the best Italian of today. My company does some work with him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quraAyYBGXw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXxusrt7UMo
02-12-2008, 08:19 AM
#35
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I was talking to a pro driver one day at the track and I commented on 'driving with the seat of your pants in wet conditions/limit of grip' and he smiled and said 'wrong end' and discussed inner ear balance and equilibrium.
Both skiing and driving use the inner ear and head positioning/control for balance in a similar fashion.
In a car, you want to keep your head from bobbing left to right and up and down as much as possible (in order to maintain fluid equilibrium and your sense of fine balance and motion, which you perceive as car motion) just as you would in skiing.
It's difficult to do either activity if your head is bouncing all around, not due to the loss of visual acuity, but due to the incorrect motioni inputs processed by your brain in comparison to your visual inputs.
Both skiing and driving use the inner ear and head positioning/control for balance in a similar fashion.
In a car, you want to keep your head from bobbing left to right and up and down as much as possible (in order to maintain fluid equilibrium and your sense of fine balance and motion, which you perceive as car motion) just as you would in skiing.
It's difficult to do either activity if your head is bouncing all around, not due to the loss of visual acuity, but due to the incorrect motioni inputs processed by your brain in comparison to your visual inputs.
02-12-2008, 09:25 AM
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I find the two sports very similar although I believe it is much more difficult to become an expert skier (comfortably handle black diamond - not the idiots who barely make it down just to tell their friends that they did it) than it is to become a accomplished driver. With the car, it does most of the work with you piloting and with skiing, you are doing all the work. You are the suspension, the alignment, the engine.... etc.
Skiing, however will never be as fun for me as driving. After all, there is nothing better than passing someone on track and there really isn't anything like that in skiing.
Skiing, however will never be as fun for me as driving. After all, there is nothing better than passing someone on track and there really isn't anything like that in skiing.
02-12-2008, 11:43 AM
#37
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Great thread, and thanks for posting it. My son is 9 and is becoming a very good ski racer. He and I chat often about "the line" and I make comparison's between my track driving and his ski racing. SO much of both sports is mental - visualization, maintaining proper balance and stance, and of course controlling fear (i.e. *****). No question the two are very closely related, especially when running gates. From a personal perspective, skiing used to be my adrenaline rush sport. Now that I take the "3" on the track, I have a new favorite hobby. Over time, I expect to move into club racing and beyond. HPDE has exceeded my lofty expectations.... How great is that?
(Can't wait to get my son in a go-kart once mom allows...)
-Blake
(Can't wait to get my son in a go-kart once mom allows...)
-Blake
02-12-2008, 02:13 PM
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02-12-2008, 02:31 PM
#39
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02-12-2008, 02:44 PM
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-Blake
02-12-2008, 11:53 PM
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Gary...yup...I had one in the late 70's. Great fun and a decent money maker for orthopedic surgeons when 50 year old Uncle Ralph gives it a shot and winds up on his keyster after trying to emulate his 15 year old nephew "dancing" effortlessly on the bongo board.
Paolo et als...From the perspective of this long-time skier whose driving skills s&*k compare with my skiing skills, I believe there are incredibly strong parallels as others here have offered. But I'd like to focus on what is common for true experts at either sport.... they become one with their equipment and environment. Individual mechanical moves, skills, or sequences needed to begin to learn each sport are replaced by a completely fluid, smooth, and seemingly effortless dance. This tends to be synonymous with being sneaky fast and being in control (virtually all the time). They are able to instinctively perceive and read all that is going on and immediately react with the proper action. This means being able to adapt to equipment or environment changes automatically and without fanfare. Very little is seemingly conscious, rather instinct takes over. Much of this instinct is due to racking up lots of experiences (runs or laps). Some is God given ability. Some is a true love of the sport. Then sprinkle in some strong competitive drive. All are needed to be the best of the best. Not all are need to have a great time doing either sport.
One of my best driving tips came from a fellow skier, JimmiLew, a PCA racer who posts here. I know you know him Paolo. In essense, Jim drew the analogy of having to drive/accelerate through a (track) turn like skiing a slalom gate. A light bulb went off for me as I realized I was essentially coasting through the apex and being very timid with the throttle. On a crisp and fast ski turn around a gate, you have to commit yourself, be aggressive, get on your downhill (outside) ski, and drive your knee(s) into a turn. A flat-footed ski turn is coasting. So my next run out after JimmiLew's advice, I decide to give this a shot. Perfect conditions on the track, no traffic whatsoever.... to be cautious, I conservatively drop my turn in speed a tad and consciously start to squeeze the throttle a tad harder and bit sooner than usual. I hit the late apex perfectly and I accelerate through the entire turn past a very safe trackout. I could easily sense my exit speed was faster and the entire turn simply felt crisper. So I just "carved" my first track turn! You know those times when it just feels right? That was it. Pretty much an epiphany novice driving moment.
WB3
after 30 years of skiing, Im hoping to make my first trip to Tuckermans this spring. I hiked it any times in good weather. It should be an adventure!
Mike
Paolo et als...From the perspective of this long-time skier whose driving skills s&*k compare with my skiing skills, I believe there are incredibly strong parallels as others here have offered. But I'd like to focus on what is common for true experts at either sport.... they become one with their equipment and environment. Individual mechanical moves, skills, or sequences needed to begin to learn each sport are replaced by a completely fluid, smooth, and seemingly effortless dance. This tends to be synonymous with being sneaky fast and being in control (virtually all the time). They are able to instinctively perceive and read all that is going on and immediately react with the proper action. This means being able to adapt to equipment or environment changes automatically and without fanfare. Very little is seemingly conscious, rather instinct takes over. Much of this instinct is due to racking up lots of experiences (runs or laps). Some is God given ability. Some is a true love of the sport. Then sprinkle in some strong competitive drive. All are needed to be the best of the best. Not all are need to have a great time doing either sport.
One of my best driving tips came from a fellow skier, JimmiLew, a PCA racer who posts here. I know you know him Paolo. In essense, Jim drew the analogy of having to drive/accelerate through a (track) turn like skiing a slalom gate. A light bulb went off for me as I realized I was essentially coasting through the apex and being very timid with the throttle. On a crisp and fast ski turn around a gate, you have to commit yourself, be aggressive, get on your downhill (outside) ski, and drive your knee(s) into a turn. A flat-footed ski turn is coasting. So my next run out after JimmiLew's advice, I decide to give this a shot. Perfect conditions on the track, no traffic whatsoever.... to be cautious, I conservatively drop my turn in speed a tad and consciously start to squeeze the throttle a tad harder and bit sooner than usual. I hit the late apex perfectly and I accelerate through the entire turn past a very safe trackout. I could easily sense my exit speed was faster and the entire turn simply felt crisper. So I just "carved" my first track turn! You know those times when it just feels right? That was it. Pretty much an epiphany novice driving moment.
Mike
02-13-2008, 01:15 AM
#42
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Doc
As was already suggested, get some private lessons.
then go to a ski area that offers NASTAR (not NASCAR) racing.
Running gates will make you a much better skier, force you into looking ahead and anticipating the line, and you'll quickly learn why there are so many similariities between the two
As was already suggested, get some private lessons.
then go to a ski area that offers NASTAR (not NASCAR) racing.
Running gates will make you a much better skier, force you into looking ahead and anticipating the line, and you'll quickly learn why there are so many similariities between the two
02-13-2008, 02:39 PM
#43
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I usually ask my students if they are skiiers as we round Aremberg heading down Fuchsrohr. If the answer is affirmative, my job is much easier. I tell them to treat it as a GS or Downhill and just make it straight as possible.
I think a good ski racer makes a good driver. They can see the lines and of course have the natural balance, spatial awareness and reactions that are needed for both sports.
I remember meeting the Mahre twins at Sebring about 20 years ago. They were there for a Firehawk race and one of them remarked that it was a tough course to figure out. Sebring was pretty featureless back then. I suggested that they ask for blue and red gates to mark the turns.
I think a good ski racer makes a good driver. They can see the lines and of course have the natural balance, spatial awareness and reactions that are needed for both sports.
I remember meeting the Mahre twins at Sebring about 20 years ago. They were there for a Firehawk race and one of them remarked that it was a tough course to figure out. Sebring was pretty featureless back then. I suggested that they ask for blue and red gates to mark the turns.
02-14-2008, 12:57 AM
#44
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Well, I never have skied so I must really suck!
02-14-2008, 06:15 PM
#45
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Holy cow. That is supremely quotable.
I can related that to both skiing and mountain biking where you can completely let go of control by utilizing momentum and sighting ahead for where you will regain traction and control. It is a thrill. I am still too green, even with several dozen track days, to be able to fully relate this to track driving.
Skiing skills of turning transitions and managing traction are 100% transferrable to driving. Fluidity is where its at.
I can related that to both skiing and mountain biking where you can completely let go of control by utilizing momentum and sighting ahead for where you will regain traction and control. It is a thrill. I am still too green, even with several dozen track days, to be able to fully relate this to track driving.
Skiing skills of turning transitions and managing traction are 100% transferrable to driving. Fluidity is where its at.