Phokaioglaukos

What do you think about lateral head restraint systems for drivers with a HANS? The right side-net, wrapped around the back of the seat and attached to the dash balancing the window net seems tried and tested, but a seat with a wrap-around for the helmet, such as the Racetech RT 4009 HR (http://www.racetechseatsna.com/race_seats/RT4009HR.html) looks appealing, too.

My principal concern is side-impact protection, but I cannot ignore emergency egress, too.

What is Rennlist wisdom?

chrisp

I bought a Halo seat over other solutions for two reasons:

- I couldn't climb out the window even when I had a non-Halo seat (EVO2)
- I like the idea that halo offers left side impact protection, right side net does not. My head is much closer to the action on the left side than it is the right.
- Much simpler and cleaner head restraint than a right side net.

I will probably add a right side net at some point.

Lemming

Just bought that exact seat this weekend

I have not yet decided whether or not I will add a right-side net.

Mark in Baltimore

I had a right side net before I got my Recaro Pro Racer HANS seat. I hated it since it blocked even more of my already limited vision out of the rear (I had a large spoiler made in lieu of the stock aerofoil wing). I tried it for a bit and then decided to ditch it since cars were "hiding" in the blind spot of the net's webbing. Also, I didn't like the way the front mount attached to the windshield header bar, for it seemed too high. Attaching it to the knee bar positioned it too low and in the way of my shifter. It really needed to be bolted where the radio used to be, a position that is now occupied by my cool shirt controls. Away it went.

RedlineMan

Hey Chris;

The other Chris' reasoning is quite sound. A good look at the issues to make a good decision.

First off, a R/S net is the end game solution. It is there if everything else fails. Think of it as a catch all. Whatever comes its way. It is there to catch the seat if it fails, or the driver if the seat fails to hold him in.

What I refer to as a head "halo" works within a much tighter window, and is rather less effective in that it only guards against a fairly narrow range of escape. If the hit is fairly close to perpedicular to the direction of the car's travel, the halo will be most effective. You do not have to stray too far from perpendicular before the halo loses a lot of its effectiveness. Again, a halo is a good and very proximate (short time duration of motion) means of retaining the head and absorbing energy quickly, but it has a narrow band of true effectiveness.

The downside of both is that; for halos, they can be a real problem in terms of ingress/egress. You need to factor for that. Also, unless you are within the deisgn of the seat in question, or you are using a component alloy seat, you need to make sure the halo is at the proper height for retention and side vision. You shouldn't use a one piece seat that does not fit you in this regard. In terms of R/S nets, they are very difficult to install properly in anything but a full blown race car where you can more easily do any type of mounting necessary to make them work.

EDIT - As Mark's trevails point out, a side net is very tricky to install properly. Mark, yours indeed was all wrong. They DO NOT block your vision nor your shifter if they are properly positioned, but that is devilishly difficult. And yes, the radio hole is the perfect location.

Sean F

Chris, if you look at some of the video of impacts with halo seats they don't seem to provide much protection. In fact, there is a video that was passed around here before where the driver's head just snaps the halo portion off. I don't think you can equate the two systems as equally effective. In older 911's the halo seats can be just as tricky to install/fit as a right side net. The height of the ride side net is most important with installation and the top of the net should bisect the helmet. The ideal attachment point is either the air vent above the radio slot or in the top of the dash. My net does not obstruct my view in any way and to be honest it's like my HANS in that now that I'm used to it I don't even notice it's there.

Janni

We are fortunate enough to have both in the competition coupe from Dodge. I think using both is good for all the reasons above. The RS net attached with a seat belt buckle receptacle, so it can easily be disengaged should you need egress through the passenger side.



Also, if Mark has a "cool short" setup - he may want to get that on the market - I mean really, the cool shirt only goes so far. (Sorry - that typo painted a mental picture that cracked me up......)

Mark in Baltimore

No, the "hot" secret is to cool your *****. I don't profess to fully understand the biology of it, but, somehow, your body reacts to the natural shrinkage by making your gonads get bigger and, hence, causing you to go faster. I read it on the internet, so I'm kind of figuring it's true.

I hear it works for ovaries, too, as tested by Michael Schumacher.

David '96 993

Mark,
That is too funny...but true. I think your "cool *****" product would be a hit. If that does not work, you might want to try this:


http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main...e17a8a3383c0e1


Back on topic: I recently installed a right side net and don't find that it limits my rearward vision too badly. I am now researching which halo will work best for me. Because of my short legs and the rake of the windsheild I was planning on mounting it on a slider. Otherwise I would not be able to get out of the car even with the door open.

Phokaioglaukos

This seat is going into a dedicated race car, so there is no concern about limited vision to the left and right--my HANS does a pretty good job of that already. I'll add a wink mirror or equivalent.

I also saw that video of a halo seat that did not work. I don't know what seat that is, but it did not look like a one-piece seat. The halo portion looked to be attached to the seat, and it certainly did little good. The Racetech seat is one-piece, and it is FIA certified (hmm, should I have said that or will it divert this thread into a certification flame-fest?).

NASA suggests that the wide end of the right-side net be attached to the seat and the narrow end does need to go right through the dash. I might do that, too, but I'm inclined to do the halo seat first. As RedlineMan notes, the seat has to fit right, too, to work. Between the HANS and a properly fitted halo seat, I'm hoping I can skip the net.

Sean F

Chris, the net attaches to the cage and to the firewall through the dash. It doesn't attach to the seat.

RedlineMan

Hey All;

The seat with "halo" you see in the Johnny Benson NASCAR crash is NOT a true modern halo seat. It is an alloy seat with a little "postal flag" add on. That video is only to demonstrate how little speed it takes to generate a lot of energy, and how worthless those old seat accessories are.



It is indeed a good idea to INCORPORATE the seat into a side net strap. Ideally, the top of the halo will be right at the tip of your nose in height. This too is where the top strap of the side net should be. Routing the top strap of the net through some sort of loop attached to the seat halo will make sure that the belt stays in that critical spot to catch your head if it escapes the seat, or worse, if the seat comes loose or bends/breaks.

This is the MOST difficult part of any safety system, and I have not been completely happy with the ones I've done so far. Still working on that!

Phokaioglaukos

Sean, see John's message just below and NASA CCR 15.17.9, which says in part "Note- it is recommended that a side net wrap around the seat and function to help stop the shoulders, head bolster (if applicable), and seat from moving sideways in an impact." There is also a diagram. I think NASA was looking at the Racetech RTViperRP which does that:

Sean F

Chris, it still should be anchored to the cage not the seat. It is fine to wrap around and attach to the seat, but it should be anchored to the cage. If the seat breaks, and they do, it will not provide any support. I recommend that you contact the manufacturers such as BSR to get the full story. I had a lengthy conversation with them about it and use the one pictured above. You could also contact HMS Motorsports or other safety experts who sell these as part of a system.

BTW, from what I was told - the above picture is not installed correctly. It's too low and the way it attaches to the seat doesn't allow for the net to be taught from top to bottom which reduces the coverage area. See all of the slack in the vertical pieces in the middle of the net? They should be tight so there is better protection for the shoulder in the lower area of the net. It's too low on the helmet and too high on the shoulder because the full net is not being used.

Larry Herman

Interesting photo, Chris. I wonder if it wraps all of the way around and attaches to the left side of the cage. That wrap should hold the seat in place in the event of a side or rearward hit, but would loosen somewhat and allow lateral movement if the seat moved forward. It may not be an issue, and may be stronger than one strung straight front to back as typically done. I would want to know more about that mounting style.