Racing suspension advice - 911SC
11-22-2007, 11:24 AM
#31
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Keith,
I have Weltmeister 22mm sways front and rear. I find them very easy to adjust. 12mm wrench, ruler and a hammer, and I can adjust the rears in about 10 min.
I think I am going to do a year or two with 23/31 T-bars. I normally drive VIR, have a few days at Roebling, and plan to hit Summit Pt., CMP, and possibly Road Atlanta over the next two years. VIR, Roebling, and Summit all have smooth pavement, but I fear that Lime Rock or other patched tracks may be too hard to drive with anything stiffer. I think 33s are too big of a jump for me.
Maybe when it is time to go stiffer, Ill be able to afford some remote-reservoir, adjusable shocks.
Don
I have Weltmeister 22mm sways front and rear. I find them very easy to adjust. 12mm wrench, ruler and a hammer, and I can adjust the rears in about 10 min.
I think I am going to do a year or two with 23/31 T-bars. I normally drive VIR, have a few days at Roebling, and plan to hit Summit Pt., CMP, and possibly Road Atlanta over the next two years. VIR, Roebling, and Summit all have smooth pavement, but I fear that Lime Rock or other patched tracks may be too hard to drive with anything stiffer. I think 33s are too big of a jump for me.
Maybe when it is time to go stiffer, Ill be able to afford some remote-reservoir, adjusable shocks.
Don
11-22-2007, 11:29 AM
#32
Rennlist Member
I normally drive VIR, have a few days at Roebling, and plan to hit Summit Pt., CMP, and possibly Road Atlanta over the next two years. VIR, Roebling, and Summit all have smooth pavement, but I fear that Lime Rock or other patched tracks may be too hard to drive with anything stiffer. I think 33s are too big of a jump for me.
Maybe when it is time to go stiffer, Ill be able to afford some remote-reservoir, adjusable shocks.
Don
Maybe when it is time to go stiffer, Ill be able to afford some remote-reservoir, adjusable shocks.
Don
11-22-2007, 11:30 AM
#33
Rennlist Member
I run 23/31, revalved Bilsteins by Jack French of Bilstein, 225/265 BFG R1 on 8x9x18 CCW wheels, and SRP sway bars.
I ran for 1 year with Carrera sways on my car before going to SRP, the difference was night and day. Despite the large expense I still consider it one of the best 'bang for the buck' upgrades out there. It transformed the car and I immediately began dropping my lap times. Even more so after I got some instruction from Glen Gatlin who helped me set them correctly.
My tub can't take anymore rubber and even at these sizes I had some rubbing issues. Next up is flares so that I can take my tire sizes to the next level. I run NASA GTS-3 and the BMWs up front are running 275 all around so my current set-up gives up some grip to them.
I ran for 1 year with Carrera sways on my car before going to SRP, the difference was night and day. Despite the large expense I still consider it one of the best 'bang for the buck' upgrades out there. It transformed the car and I immediately began dropping my lap times. Even more so after I got some instruction from Glen Gatlin who helped me set them correctly.
My tub can't take anymore rubber and even at these sizes I had some rubbing issues. Next up is flares so that I can take my tire sizes to the next level. I run NASA GTS-3 and the BMWs up front are running 275 all around so my current set-up gives up some grip to them.
11-22-2007, 11:30 AM
#34
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Gary,
Those are the single-most expensive suspension parts. I have to say no for now. Fortunately shock tuning has nothing to do with sways, so I can add them later.
I have my current sways set full stiff in the front and middle in the rear. Tiny bit of understeer going in and very little oversteer coming out. Probably could be a little faster if I went a little tighter in the rear (a little more oversteer).
Trade you even for the 930? :^)
Those are the single-most expensive suspension parts. I have to say no for now. Fortunately shock tuning has nothing to do with sways, so I can add them later.
I have my current sways set full stiff in the front and middle in the rear. Tiny bit of understeer going in and very little oversteer coming out. Probably could be a little faster if I went a little tighter in the rear (a little more oversteer).
Trade you even for the 930? :^)
11-22-2007, 11:34 AM
#35
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Jake,
Thanks for your data also. I plan to dip my toe into club racing this year. Kids will both be done with college in two years. No tuition payments = race budget. Looks like Ill be shopping for CCWs and SRP ARBs in two winters.
Don
Thanks for your data also. I plan to dip my toe into club racing this year. Kids will both be done with college in two years. No tuition payments = race budget. Looks like Ill be shopping for CCWs and SRP ARBs in two winters.
Don
11-22-2007, 11:35 AM
#36
Rennlist Member
Gary,
Those are the single-most expensive suspension parts. I have to say no for now. Fortunately shock tuning has nothing to do with sways, so I can add them later.
I have my current sways set full stiff in the front and middle in the rear. Tiny bit of understeer going in and very little oversteer coming out. Probably could be a little faster if I went a little tighter in the rear (a little more oversteer).
Trade you even for the 930? :^)
Those are the single-most expensive suspension parts. I have to say no for now. Fortunately shock tuning has nothing to do with sways, so I can add them later.
I have my current sways set full stiff in the front and middle in the rear. Tiny bit of understeer going in and very little oversteer coming out. Probably could be a little faster if I went a little tighter in the rear (a little more oversteer).
Trade you even for the 930? :^)
I would trade but I need CASH for MY "D" car's stuff!
11-22-2007, 11:40 AM
#37
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks Gary, and everybody else who has offered advice (Except for Ted). I have to go help with T-day dinner. Happy Thanks giving to you all. Ill be back in a few hours.
11-22-2007, 11:42 AM
#38
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Keith,
I have Weltmeister 22mm sways front and rear. I find them very easy to adjust. 12mm wrench, ruler and a hammer, and I can adjust the rears in about 10 min.
I think I am going to do a year or two with 23/31 T-bars. I normally drive VIR, have a few days at Roebling, and plan to hit Summit Pt., CMP, and possibly Road Atlanta over the next two years. VIR, Roebling, and Summit all have smooth pavement, but I fear that Lime Rock or other patched tracks may be too hard to drive with anything stiffer. I think 33s are too big of a jump for me.
Maybe when it is time to go stiffer, Ill be able to afford some remote-reservoir, adjusable shocks.
Don
I have Weltmeister 22mm sways front and rear. I find them very easy to adjust. 12mm wrench, ruler and a hammer, and I can adjust the rears in about 10 min.
I think I am going to do a year or two with 23/31 T-bars. I normally drive VIR, have a few days at Roebling, and plan to hit Summit Pt., CMP, and possibly Road Atlanta over the next two years. VIR, Roebling, and Summit all have smooth pavement, but I fear that Lime Rock or other patched tracks may be too hard to drive with anything stiffer. I think 33s are too big of a jump for me.
Maybe when it is time to go stiffer, Ill be able to afford some remote-reservoir, adjusable shocks.
Don
Gothcha sorry I missed that in my initial read. Sounds like a good progression plan.
11-22-2007, 12:28 PM
#39
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Just found this in a search. I know that there is more info out there, but you can see that the spring rate for 22/31 torsion bars is really quite low as compared to what you can get from coil springs. As an example running 22 mm (210 lb) torsion bars in front and 31 mm (332 lb) rear. That's I why I suggested the stiffest torsion bars that you can get for track use.
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
11-22-2007, 03:28 PM
#40
Burning Brakes
Has anyone tried the SRP/ Fox double adjustables mentioned in the SRP /Excellence article? According to that article, they seem to offer quite an improvement over the revalved Bilsteins.
As for trying to obtain maximum stiffness, again, according to that article, they seem to think the more compliant ride of the Fox units offer more grip than just the stiffest settings. I am not arguing with any of the points made in this thread, I am just trying to learn more, and understand the various points made.
As for trying to obtain maximum stiffness, again, according to that article, they seem to think the more compliant ride of the Fox units offer more grip than just the stiffest settings. I am not arguing with any of the points made in this thread, I am just trying to learn more, and understand the various points made.
11-22-2007, 04:44 PM
#41
RL Technical Advisor
Just found this in a search. I know that there is more info out there, but you can see that the spring rate for 22/31 torsion bars is really quite low as compared to what you can get from coil springs. As an example running 22 mm (210 lb) torsion bars in front and 31 mm (332 lb) rear. That's I why I suggested the stiffest torsion bars that you can get for track use.
11-22-2007, 05:46 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
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David,
Jim B. would recommend the Fox shocks for the SC. I know that's how he sets up the cars. I have driven one and can tell a difference. You can fine tune your braking into and accel out of key turns.
It would be a great addition to the car, but I would wait a season or two to get really familiar with it first.
Jim B. would recommend the Fox shocks for the SC. I know that's how he sets up the cars. I have driven one and can tell a difference. You can fine tune your braking into and accel out of key turns.
It would be a great addition to the car, but I would wait a season or two to get really familiar with it first.
11-22-2007, 05:58 PM
#43
Burning Brakes
David,
Jim B. would recommend the Fox shocks for the SC. I know that's how he sets up the cars. I have driven one and can tell a difference. You can fine tune your braking into and accel out of key turns.
It would be a great addition to the car, but I would wait a season or two to get really familiar with it first.
Jim B. would recommend the Fox shocks for the SC. I know that's how he sets up the cars. I have driven one and can tell a difference. You can fine tune your braking into and accel out of key turns.
It would be a great addition to the car, but I would wait a season or two to get really familiar with it first.
I don't have any plans to change the car, just trying to learn as much as possible.
Jim took me for some laps in his car last week at the Eagle Canyon event. Pretty fun. He has an amazing car, he said mine should be similar.
I called Matt, but only got to his wife, hope we can get all the communication worked out tomorrow and get the show on the road. Sorry it is taking so long, but no worries, nothing has changed.
11-22-2007, 06:48 PM
#44
Burning Brakes
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No problem, I know they were busy yesterday. I tried to schedule a visit with my (hopefully) future baby, but they were too busy for that too.
Don't compare the car to your ride though. It was mostly Jim's driving, not the setup. He is great. You should enjoy G/D for years.
Don't compare the car to your ride though. It was mostly Jim's driving, not the setup. He is great. You should enjoy G/D for years.
11-22-2007, 06:56 PM
#45
Burning Brakes
Yes, I know he is an amazing driver. He has driven my 993 several times with me in the right side, so I have a pretty good idea of what he can do that I can't!
I am very excited about the SC, really looking forward to it.
Have you clinched the deal on the new ride?
I am very excited about the SC, really looking forward to it.
Have you clinched the deal on the new ride?