That's funny. If not everyone, at least everyone in front of you is cheating.

Well I'm not sure about it being "a gentleman's sport". More like a European version of the NBA and the inner city. And seemingly, like the FIA, the impetus for the witchhunt is from the governing body, not the sponsors. If they really wanted a "clean" sport, they wouldn't make the riders race for 21 days in a row.

Now that'd be quite the bloodsport wouldn't it? - 21 Grans Prix in a row.

 

Russ;
Actualy - what we have been seeing is "unbelievable racing." I, for one, would like it to be "believable" again. I don't know how they're going to accomplish that, and some innocent riders will be caught up (not Floyd), but it's got to be done.
Just my $0.02
Alan

 

By Jonathan Noble Friday, November 9th 2007, 15:31 GMT

Renault are adamant that none of the McLaren intellectual property at the centre of the new spy controversy has been used in the design of their Formula One cars.

The former world champions have been summoned to appear before a hearing of the FIA World Motor Sport Council on December 6 to answer charges that the team had McLaren design details in their possession.

In a statement issued by Renault on Friday, however, the team said that former McLaren engineer Phil Mackareth had arrived at the team with several old-style floppy disks that included engineering drawings and some technical spreadsheets from his former employers.

Although this information was loaded onto Mackareth's computer at Renault, and some small-scale drawings shown to other members of staff, investigations have suggested that it provided no influence on car design.

The statement said: "Subsequent witness statements from the engineers involved have categorically stated that having been briefly shown these drawings, none of this information was used to influence design decisions relating to the Renault car."

Renault also reiterated that they have cooperated fully with McLaren and the FIA on the matter ever since they were alerted about the discs in early September.

As well as suspending Mackareth, the discs have been returned to McLaren and all the information on Renault's systems has been deleted.

The statement added: "ING Renault F1 Team have co-operated fully with McLaren and the FIA in this matter to the extent that the team has invited McLaren's independent experts to come and assess the team's computer systems and inspect the cars and the design records, to demonstrate that this unfortunate incident has not in anyway influenced the design of the cars.

"ING Renault F1 Team have acted with complete transparency towards McLaren and the FIA, being proactive in solving this matter and we are fully confident in the judgment of the World Council."

 

Over 15 Renault men involved in spy case

By Jonathan Noble Friday, November 9th 2007, 18:40 GMT

At least 15 engineers at Renault knew about the McLaren technical information that is at the centre of the latest spy investigation, autosport.com has learned.

Renault are to face a hearing of the FIA World Motor Sport Council next month to answer charges that they had in their possession intellectual property belonging to McLaren.

This information was part of a number of floppy disks that engineer Phil Mackareth brought with him to the Enstone team from McLaren in September 2006.

Renault have admitted that Mackareth had the information transferred to his computer at Renault, and showed scale drawings to 'some engineers', but are adamant that the details were not used to influence their car design.

McLaren have also conducted their own investigation into the matter at Renault's Enstone headquarters, having used the independent Kroll company, and it is believed a dossier of evidence about the matter has been submitted to the FIA.

Autosport.com understands that Renault and McLaren's investigations have revealed that more than 15 engineers in total examined the information from McLaren, which included details on the 2007 car. It is believed each of these has confirmed the fact in writing.

Sources have suggested that the engineers are not just junior staff members, but also include head of vehicle performance and R&D, deputy technical director, deputy chief designer and chief designer Tim Densham.

The extent of knowledge within Renault about the McLaren information mirrors similar claims surrounding the McLaren/Ferrari case, where the depth of the knowledge about Ferrari secrets extended well beyond just chief designer Mike Coughlan.

 

Friday, November 9th 2007, 15:33 GMT

Following the notification of the FIA for the ING Renault F1 Team representatives to appear in front of the World Council, the team wishes to clarify the situation.

On the 6th September 2007 it came to our attention that an engineer (Mr Phil Mackereth) who joined the team from McLaren in Sept 2006 had brought with him some information that was considered to be proprietary to McLaren. This information was contained on old style floppy discs and included copies of some McLaren engineering drawings and some technical spreadsheets.

This information was loaded at the request of Mr Mackereth onto his personal directory on the Renault F1 Team file system. This was done without the knowledge of anyone in authority in the team. As soon as the situation was brought to the attention of the team's technical management, the following actions were taken:

The information was completely cleansed from the team's computer systems and a formal investigation was started. We promptly informed McLaren of the situation and immediately after the FIA.

Since then we have constantly and regularly kept McLaren and the FIA informed on all relevant findings.

Mr Mackereth was immediately suspended from his position. The original floppy discs were impounded and sent to our solicitors for return to McLaren.

Our formal investigation showed that early in his employment with Renault Mr Mackereth made some of our engineers aware of parts of this information in the form of a few reduced scale engineering drawings. These drawings covered four basic systems as used by McLaren and were: the internal layout of the fuel tank, the basic layout of the gear clusters, a tuned mass damper and a suspension damper.

Subsequent witness statements from the engineers involved have categorically stated that having been briefly shown these drawings, none of this information was used to influence design decisions relating to the Renault car. In the particular case of the tuned mass damper, these had already been deemed illegal by the FIA and therefore the drawing was of no value.

The suspension damper drawing hinted that the McLaren design might be similarly considered illegal and a subsequent clarification from the FIA confirmed this based upon our crude interpretation of the concept.

ING Renault F1 Team have co-operated fully with McLaren and the FIA in this matter to the extent that the team has invited McLaren's independent experts to come and assess the team's computer systems and inspect the cars and the design records, to demonstrate that this unfortunate incident has not in anyway influenced the design of the cars.

ING Renault F1 Team have acted with complete transparency towards McLaren and the FIA, being proactive in solving this matter and we are fully confident in the judgment of the World Council.

 

This is interesting , as now the FIA has to determine if , intellectual property taken from an old employer to the new , is deemed spying . How could anyone police this , it would be impossible and it is nothing compared to the mclaren saga , where proprietary info was given from one person to the next while said person was still being employed by their competitor...

 

"...it is nothing compared to the mclaren saga , where proprietary info was given from one person to the next while said person was still being employed by their competitor..."

oh ye of great faith, hair-splitting & secret knowledge...

 

Who still uses floppy disks? It also sounds like mclaren sent him with bad intel and that's why renault was so slow this year.

 

I would hate to think that Renault cheated and their car still turned out slow.

 

I say FREE FOR ALL and let the best team win!

 

Running nitrous or otherwise breaking an explicit rule is a no-no, but competitive intelligence is a management obligation. Lock your doors and stop the whining.

 

Exactly,

Facts are:

First, Mclaren was found guilty of having proprietary data obtained illegaly, 151c breach. - No penalty

Second, Mclaren was found guilty of having used the data, the data was widespread to key figures within mclaren, and it is very likely that Mclaren received competivie advantage from the data. (although no one will ever know for sure, or to what extent). - Big penalty

Mclaren, has to prove the data was obtained illegaly, then used, and then that within reasonable doubt, Renault received competitive advantage from that.


Mclaren crossed a fine line by a wide margin. Still not remotely comparable to Ferrrari-Mclaren, at least with the evidence at hand.

"The information was completely cleansed from the team's computer systems and a formal investigation was started. We promptly informed McLaren of the situation and immediately after the FIA." Exactly what Mclaren failed to do.

 

Proof That the Renault Formula One Team Cheated!!!
By Mike Sulka

http://www.paddocktalk.com

Well... Flavio Briatore's Renault Formula One team has really stepped into it now.

They've been caught red-handed cheating.

And we've got the proof.





Though the FIA is taking the long way around on this one with formal proceedings, and another full march on Paris by the Formula One teams, investigators, drivers, bosses and the World Motor Sport Council....

The obvious proof is right there in front of their eyes.

It wasn't McLaren's access to the Renault computer systems that caught Renault with their pants down like a husband bagging his mistress in his own bed only to have his wife walk in on them...

And nobody seems to have found the three disks McLaren's lax computer security let out of their facility with a departing engineer....

So it obviously isn't that evidence that makes Renault culpable.

And it is neither of these things that clearly proves Renault's guilt.

While some may be fooled by the planted stories that Renault struggled to come to grips with the aerodynamics of the new Bridgestone tires...

We won't buy this cover-up.

Because, it is the RS27 itself which will sentence Renault to pay the FIA millions of francs.

After producing a R25 that won eight races, scored 18 podiums, and won Fernando Alonso his first driver's title, and the team a constructor's championship....

And after producing a R26 that won eight races, scored 20 podiums, won Fernando Alonso his second driver's title, and the team a second straight contructor's championship....

The Renault Formula One outdid McLaren themselves by using McLaren technology on the R27.

It is the silver arrow.. er bullet... so to speak.

In 2006, McLaren and their piece of crap MP4-21 missed winning a race for the first time since 1996. Heck, they even had 2007 Formula One driver's champion Kimi Raikkonen at the wheel...

And the damn thing still couldn't win, and nearly couldn't grab a Pole.

But it is clear that Renault not only seized upon the data in hand, but obviously used it in the R27, and nearly one-upped McLaren....

Not only did Renault not win a race for the first time since 2002, they nearly didn't grab a podium. It was only the rain gods at the Japanese Grand Prix that intervened and gifted Renault a podium finish.

So it's clear... Renault have obviously cheated in 2007, because suddenly their success of the past was erased, and their pace resembled the McLaren of 2006.

The case is closed.

Renault is guilty as charged.

 

Alonso seems to bring a little sunshine wherever he goes lately......

 

Hey, what do you think Ross Brawn will take with him now that he's going to Honda...