Nordschleife

per SRO


The FIA World Motor Sport Council of 24th October 2007 has approved the following proposal from the GT Commission:
In 2010, the FIA GT Championship will evolve into two new separate championships:
- A World Championship for GT1 cars
- A European Championship for GT2 cars
These Championships will follow new GT1 and GT2 Technical Regulations, to be published following the next FIA World Motor Sport Council, in December 2007. They will come into force within the FIA GT Championship from the 2009 season, which will be a transition year, where cars built according to the new regulations will be entered alongside the current cars.
The new 2010 FIA GT Technical Regulations, established in cooperation with the Automobile Club de l’Ouest for application in both the FIA GT Championship and the Le Mans 24 Hours, will be reserved for GT cars produced in excess of 300 units per calendar year, leaving the FIA the right to refuse homologation to cars that could be considered too extreme.
From December 2007 onwards, the FIA will publish a list of eligible cars each year.
Manufacturers and private engineering tuners will be able to develop, build and enter cars in the FIA Championship, with a minimum number of cars defined for each category.
Compared to the current technical regulations, the 2010 regulations will define heavier but more powerful cars, using production engines made reliable for competition, the power of which will be controlled by various means including, but not limited to, a standard ECU as well as torque and fuel control rate sensors. The common ECU will also allow the prohibition of the use of traction control systems.
Manufacturers wishing to enter models produced in excess of 5000 units per calendar year will have the opportunity to request waivers from the FIA, including the possibility of replacing the car’s engine with another large scale production engine fitted in other models from the same brand.
The rest of the Technical Regulations will be based on the current GT2 regulations, with some additional aero modifications permitted for GT1 cars.
The GT1 category will be reserved for models with engines above 5.5L. The manufacturers or tuners will be able to choose between homologation at 650bhp/1300kg or 600bhp/1250kg.
The GT2 category will be reserved for cars with engines under 5.0L. The manufacturers or tuners will be able to choose between homologation at 500bhp/1250kg or 450bhp/1200kg.
For cars with engines between 5.0L and 5.5L, the manufacturers or tuners will be able to choose homologation in either GT1 or GT2.
In order to make each category unique, one and the same model cannot be homologated in both GT1 and GT2.
The FIA GT3 European Championship will be maintained in its current format and the GT3 category will remain unchanged.

Spyderidol

So no more air restrictors!

Nordschleife

there will be restrictors and weight adjustment and control ecus, performanace is going to be 'normalised'. Torque and fuel delivery will be independently controlled. Check on how 'standard' performance is achieved in GT3, its that sort of thing.

Leastways, that is today's plan, come 2009, who knows. Don't expect cf cars to qualify, unless the Prototype class is dropped for a GTR class which would be the protos based on production silhouettes.

R+C

Matt Marks

I think this begs the question of whether Porsche will choose to run in GT1 or GT2, (or both). And if so, which model would they homologate into GT1 vs GT2.

Spyderidol

...so basically we will have even more spec racing?

Nordschleife

Basically there will be 4 levels of performance

650 bhp - 1,300 kg - 2.00 kg / bhp
600 bhp - 1,250 kg - 2.08 kg / bhp

500 bhp - 1,250 kg - 2.50 kg / bhp
450 bhp - 1,200 kg - 3.00 kg / bhp

As you can see the 450 band sucks big time, unless they can run much longer stints than the bigger guys.

It doesn't do the 911 any favours vis a vis the F430 and Gallardo.

Its very good news for Corvette owners, because the race chassis should be made available to customers. Bad news for Aston Martin (DB9) as their chassis will be left out in the cold being entirely unsuitable for a production version.

As far as the 911 is concerned, 3.9 litre versions of the RSR engine do run all night and all day whilst putting out 500 bhp so the top end of GT2 would suit, but it would still be butting up against the F430, the Gallardo, the baby Aston and the new Jaguar.

However, without seeing the final version of the detailed regulations, we cannot exclude the option of moving the engine ahead of the rear axle, in which case, the 911 takes on a new lease of life. In either the GT2 class with 500 bhp or the GT1 class with 650 bhp and a different, possibly V10 engine.

The rules are against small manufacturers, so the likes of Spyker are going to have to fight to stay in racing, if they ever should have been there in the first place, and you have to ask questions about Saleen, Pagani, Lister, Ascari and their ilk. I am optimistic that Maserati and Alfa Romeo will be encouraged as they have access to stock engines that fit the bill.

R+C

928cs

Thank you Robin.

"possibility of replacing the car’s engine with another large scale production engine fitted in other models from the same brand."
What is the definition of a brand?
Is this the brand of the sold car or the engine alone?

What about the turbos? Are they forbidden?

Samuel

Nordschleife

No, turbos are not forbidden. However, with 'caps' on bhp, as opposed to 'how much can we get out of this sucker with this pissant restictor', the benefits of going the turbo route are less obvious. A normally aspirated race car is easier to drive (remember the 917), and will the 'stock' ecu allow for variable vane control, I don't think anybody has thought about this yet.

In this context, Brand and Marque are used interchangably. So, a 911 could run with a V8 from the Cayenne/Panamera or a V10 from a Carrera GT, so long as they are 'production' based.

If Porsche needs a cheaper V10, they can slot the Lamborghini/Audi V10 into the Panamera as an option and then take this engine and stuff it into the 911's back seat. Its compact enough, there is an RS4 running around with one up its nose.

Audi could run an R8 with a V8, V10 or W12, but the V10 would make the most sense as it comfortably produces 500 bhp.

The opportunities for BMW are great, their V10 in .....

I hope these developments will encourage better chassis on road cars.

R+C

928cs

If you are limited in power, a turbo could be a good solution to have torque, even at low rpms and a good fuel efficiency (=> Longer stints).
Also, this is "dans l'air du temps" with the downsizing.

I was asking about the brand because it may even be easier to produce an Audi sedan with a Porsche stamped engine.

I also hope this will help to improve road cars, for the chassis, but also the engine.

Samuel

Nordschleife

Samuel

The Audi engine plant at Győr makes engines for the whole VAG/Porsche group. Porsche uses quite a lot of VW/Audi bits already and has declared its interest in having cars produced on one of VAG's smart production lines. The dividing line between PAG and VAG can only get more blurred.

As far as putting a PAG engine in an Audi saloon goes, I think we are far more likely to see a VW/Audi engine in a Panamera, which will be built by VAG and assembled by PAG, as the Cayennes are presently. In the long run, one has to wonder when PAG engine production will be consolidated at Györ. The families that control PAG/VAG have a history of involvement and investment in Eastern European countries (the Old Austro-Hungarian Empire) and you can see a trend whereby production is shifting eastwards from Western and Central Europe.

I have great respect for Audi's engine developers. If you compare the characteristics of the V10s from Lamborghini and BMW (make sure you use the engineering numbers not the marketing numbers from BMW) you will see just how clever Audi has been (no confusion between Audi and Lamborghini).

(Laughing) as far as Turbos go, everytime I drive a turbo I need to fill up after 50 minutes, that ain't economical.

Alternatively, we could always turn off half the cylinders whilst cruising down the Mulsanne straight at 300 kph to improve the consumption figures.

R+C

Spyderidol

Nordschleife - Does the "approval" of these regulations rule out the rumored proposal that was to be made by the manufacturers in December?

Thanks for the insight! It's good to have someone with which to discuss this.

Nordschleife

er......

looking at Stephane Ratel's original proposal, you would have to say that the 'large' manufacturers have put one over the small manufacturers.

I expect a lot of haggling before we see anything carved in stone. The manufacturers are going to try and have it all agreed before there is another public announcement. The companies that only make 50-200 cars a year are going to be really cross.

R+C

Spyderidol

OK thanks!
It certainly seems that the proposal is not very "Porsche friendly" , or at least not very "911 friendly".
On the other hand, it may just be what is required to prod Porsche into developing the so much desired (by some) mid-engined 911 substitute.

Nordschleife

well its been modified to allow PAG to bung a C-GT engine in the car, thats quite friendly

R+C

Spyderidol

Yes, in theory, but will they do it?