First off I am not trying to compare a Hans vs. R3; I am just wondering how effective a Hans device would be with my setup.

A little background, this is my second year doing DE's, and I wasn't planning on getting a Hans device unless I started doing club racing. That was until a close friend of mine, broke his back while BMX biking this week. This really woke me up and make me realize how easy it is to do serious damage.

So I’ve decided I should get a Hans device, do you think it will still be affective with my current setup. (Recaro Speed seats, 5 pt harness, Dasport roll bar, and a Dirtbike helmet.) I think the seats will be fine, but I’m not sure about the helmet, because it is M approved and not SA approved.

As far as model goes I sit with my seat almost straight up and down would I be better off with the model 10 or 20. Also should I get a small or medium? (My neck is 15 ½ inches)

Any opinions or suggestions?

 

You'll need an SA helmet to use a Hans. Get a model 20, and try on the different sizes. Don't forget to think about how a fire suit will affect sizing around your neck.

 

From experience, a size medium should work fine and you are most likely a model 20. The ideal situation is to try a few on at your next DE if you see someone else using one. Ask them to borrow it just to sit in the car. If the track has a store and sells Hans, I would think they would let you sit in the car with one on for fitment (this is what HANS recommends). As long as the device is not used, we will exchange them within a reasonable time period for a different model.

 

Why?

 

I thought Hans only approved of anchors into SA helmets but I was wrong. According to Hans:
Do I need a special helmet?

No. The helmet anchors fit any SNELL approved racing helmet.

 

20 Medium will work fine.

 

I didn't think PCA allowed a non- SA helmet to be used. I know BMWCCA is adamant about it because a motorcycle helmet is not designed for the types of impacts that a motorsports one is. I remember listening to Joe Marko from HMS talk about the differences at an event. Both types of helmets are designed for different uses -- and so a motorcycle helmet is not adequate for a car and visa versa.

What are the differences between snell SA and snell M standards?
SA Standard was designed for auto racing while M Standard was for motorcycling and other motorsports. There are three major differences between them:
1. SA standard requires flammability test while the M standard does not;
2. SA standard allows narrower visual field than M standard (Some SA helmets may not be street legal);
3. SA standard has rollbar impact test while M standard does not.

Basics on Snell, but I understand manufacturers meet those standards but also design helmets for the different uses. Fall and slide of a motorcycle has different needs than "multiple impacts" you might have inside a car -- hitting the roll bar, etc.

If I acquired a car with a roll cage and racing seats, the first thing I'd do before driving it on the track would be to get a new helmet and a Hans...

 

Well...

Aside from the helmet issue, in terms of system architecture, you need to make sure the seat belt holes are in the proper position for the belts to pass through (that is ALWAYS true). Further, you need to make sure the belt bar is at the proper height.

Ideally, the belts should be nearly horizontal as they pass through the seat (unimpeded by the seat holes) and over the HANS yoke. I try not to see more than a 10# decline from HANS to terminus. A little bit is good for belt retention on the HANS, but more than that starts to offer too much shoulder compression for comfort and spine safety.

The HANS is the trickiest to set up properly in terms of architecture, but it does work well if you can achieve that.

 

^^ What he said.

p.s. I've never heard of ANY car club allowing motorcycle helmets for a DE event, but maybe yours does. Surprising.

 

Aside from the flammability issue, an M will work as well as an SA in a car lacking a cage--at least per the three points RonCT listed.

 

Most clubs Ive driven with allow M rated helmets for DEs. Personally I would get an SA rated helmet. Youre going to spend $800 for a HANS, whats a few hundred more for a decent helmet?

 

Mike said "Recaro Speed seats, 5 pt harness, Dasport roll bar, and a Dirtbike helmet" -- so he has a roll bar and 5 point belts. Thus my suggestion of a proper SA helmet with Hans.

 

OK....

M and SA ratings only signify what tests were passed. It says NOTHING about how they were designed other than passing the tests (OK, fire retardant liner and field of vision are design issues). To assume a shell was designed for different types of impacts because of the rating is misguided. The are and have been a number of shells used for both SA and M helmets. Somebody said they were designed differently and someone repeated that and suddenly it becomes "common knowledge" even if it is incorrect.

The "rollbar impact test" is simply a third anvil test (as opposed to two with the M rating). This gets over played and I'll bet virtually all M rated helmets would pass this test.

Personally, I think requiring an SA helmet anyplace where a fire retardant suit is not required is simply silly. But, it's probably done to protect in some small way against law suits.

I hate to say this because he is highly regarded, but I've seen other statements attributed to Joe Marko that have been over statements of facts.

That said, there are some bike helmets that have been designed differently. Many of them are not even Snell rated. There was an article published about two years ago (I think) where some true experts believed the Snell M rating actually lead to less safe bike helmets. It was quite an interesting read. Anyway, the gist was that designing a helmet to pass the M rating with the anvil tests did NOT lead to a helmet that would best absorb glancing blows and other types of contact typically seen in a bike crash.

 

If the dirtbike helmet is open face, then it should be replaced with a full-face, but that's another story.

 

I've read articles from BMWCCA, other motorsports groups, etc. and listened to seminars by Joe and others on the subject. The consensus was that there are different designs for different uses. BMW will not allow you to participate in a DE without a motorsports helmet. It makes sense to me -- A motorcycle helmet is designed for motorcycles and the obvious differences of impacts / abrasion resistance therefore required (bang and slide). A motorsports helmet has different design needs, and so it is reasonable to expect that the helmet companies take that into consideration. Makes sense to me...

Now if I were getting a Hans, I'd also get a newer motorsports helmet with the Hans anchors done by the dealer so it arrives to me ready to wear.