rabjohns

I currently DE an '04 996 GT3 in group 1.

I would like to club race next year. I am trying to work out what car:

- Take my stock "ish" GT3 and turn it into a race car - regret not getting a cup

- Buy a cheaper 944 and learn how to find momentum with less cost but miss the power and spend a lot of time fixing things that break

- Buy a 993RS to retain the back end experience, worry about mechanicals

- Pony up for a cup car the car I think I really want. Ignore the costs.

Are my assumptions about each car true? Has anybody faced the same decision?

lowside67

The answer is obviously pony up for the real cup car and stop counting costs.

Jerseybean

If you can afford 1800 for a set of tires, plus all of the other expenses that go along with a cup. Engine rebuild after 120hrs is about 20k-25k. Also can you afford to walk away from it if you wreck the car, typical street car insurance for the cup isn't available so you have to get racng insurance from someone like Laurel or Prosure, that could be 8/9k depending on the value of the car - also % risk of damage are a lot more in racing than DE. Also be prepared for lots and lots of extremely talented fast drivers and traffic in GTC-3/4/GTA. These cars are great, the smile factor is a 10 Just remember to get a good one and have it inspected by someone who knows these cars, stay away from all Rolex cars no matter what the price is.

My advice is to rent a car (like a 944 or a boxster etc) for your first club race, then you only have to worry about driving - also many of the people that rent these cars are excellent drivers & coaches. Club racing is very different from DE, If you decide that Club racing isn't for you then you haven't spent all that cash.

Whats group 1, is that black run group?

Mike in Chi

David

You know my answer. I think I gave it to you last weekend at Road America.

A 44 is a great learning tool. ALL racecars are expensive and will break from time to time. 44s are just cheaper to fix.

And if you leave one in the wall in the Kink, you won't sob "Mommy" as you walk away from it, like you would if it were a cup car.

The low hp cars are a great training ground. Karl Poeltl has one for sale right now that got a first and a second last weekend in F. I know a 944 Turbo S E car for sale too, if you want to go a little faster.

Then once you've developed some skills, driving and racing, you can go as fast as your wallet permits.

If money is no object (you say "Come to Daddy" when the checks come in) get the Cup Car.

Phokaioglaukos

I'm in the same boat.

I have rejected converting my '05 street GT3 into a race car. It's too nice a car to put a cage into and make unstreetable. It'll also never be a cup car.

I've almost rejected getting a 944 or 951, but I am renting a 944S2 to race at the Glen with NASA next month, and that may change my mind. The 951s seems ver fragile and I've been spoiled not having to do any real maintenance or repair on my GT3--it just runs. The 944s seem under powered to the extent that they would not be fun in DEs, and I still want to do DEs.

I've considered keeping the GT3 for DE and buying a SSM Spec Miata to race with SCCA in SM and SSM, with a track support company transporting it to/from the track and doing trackside support. That would eliminate the need for a pickup and trailer. I'm renting a Miata to do a two-day SCCA racinc school next month.

I've thought about selling the GT3 and buying pickup, trailer and race 996 for racing in PCA and DEs.

I've thought about selling the GT3 and buying pickup, trailer and race BMW for racing in BMW club racing and DEs. There are more BMW races in nearby NE tracks than there are in PCA--2 more at Mid-Ohio and one at VIR, too.

The last three options are the current front runners.

RolexNJ

I could not agree more, best bang for the buck with the learning curve process.

Phokaioglaukos

What about 911s in F Stock? Seems like I've spent a lot of time in a rear engine car and hope to have learned something.

Vampire

JimB has the perfect car for you. 996 with lots of wins. Cheaper than a cup and set up to go fast.

Vampire

Join the club!

Great competition in F class. 911's are fun to drive. Expense is not as bad as with turbo's or cups.

analogmike

Good choice. A 964 C2 in E is also great for a little more $.

Phokaioglaukos

But also consider that an E or F car would not be able to keep up with the cars in my region's red group (not that I'm an instructor, but perhaps some day)....

JimB

.....Full disclosure. I have a 996 based race car which I intend to get serious about selling after the rules are solidified. The following is somewhat biased but does reflect my experience in club racing.....

I agree that converting a GT3 is crazy. Great cars but by the time you get it ready to race you will have a bundle into it. Buy a prepared race car.

I have a good friend that went straight from DEing a GT3 to a cup car and has done well but that's a pretty unique case. I think it makes a lot of sense to cut your teeth in a lower class.

If I were you guys I would be inclined to look at the evolving upper stock classes. The cars are very cool, they are close to what you are used to, the racing is really pretty exciting and it's very good preparation for cup cars. If the rules are implemented as proposed, 996s, which are very similar to your GT3s, will be competitive in three different classes.

Just my 2 cents worth.
Jim

p.s. Thanks for the plug Bret!

924RACR

I am of course biased to the 944 line, but independent of that, here's a Q which might help refine your answer: why do you want to go club racing? Why race, when you can already DE?

Your answer may help define your best choice in class and, therefore, car.

Phokaioglaukos

Why race? I'll know more after the NASA race at WGI next month as to whether it is what I hope, but I'm looking to improve my skills, for competition (without car-to-car contact) that will push me off-line and generally faster (I often do not push myself as hard as I should) and cameraderie.

RolexNJ

Based on all you said, I will still say get a 944 and join NASA.