paradisenb

I'm trying to figure out what can and can't be changed on a 911 and still be F Class legal. I know a lot of you guys have been there/done that, so if you will shed a little light on this subject I can avoid making the obvious costly mistakes.

I been looking at this car in the classified: http://mall.rennlist.com/scripts/fea...uery=retrieval

Sorry about the strange link. I haven't figured out the new link system. Not to fond of the latest 'Upgrade'. Any help here?

Question #2: Would I be better looking for an E Class car? 964? Has power steering and coil overs. I really like these options.

TIA

MJR911

Keys to F class 911

915 gearbox (fresh and rebuilt by a pro without the first name Gary) add wevo gate shift

Suspension: STIFF T bars, matching sways and valved shocks (suspension is a SYSTEM)
Pro alignment, max the neg camber

Wheels: 8" and 9" 17" or 18" shod with 245 and 275 hoosiers

Safety: Pro cage not through firewall, seat, belts, etc

Engine: Don't touch it if leakdown goes well... open up with headers and free flow exhaust

Invest the most money in pro instruction and seat time and you'll be ready to win at Sebring


If you can do a late 88-89 g50 you get better trans. I would do e class 964 if possible with mostly the same as above, you can win with either one.

FredC

Hey Randy,

It depends what you start with - a pre-78, an SC, or a Carrera.

The latter is born an F-Class car (except the Euro spec one which is born in E). There is not a lot that you can do to a Carrera and still be legal. Headers, exhaust, suspension (better sway bars, torsion bars, etc...), shifter, RS or Iroc FG, and 8 and 9s and that's is pretty much it.

An SC (except 82-83 Euro which are F class born if I am not mistaken) and pre-78s will give you more flexibility, though pre-78s for F are not common at all. All of the above mods are legal for these, and then you can grow bigger brakes, change ring and pinion, and run wider wheels if that helps. These older, technically less powerful cars will also run at lower weights.

I hope this helps.

Fred

Gary R.

The car in the classifieds has a G50 (it was in 87-89's). The Steve Wong chip is illegal. The 1/2 cage is NG and if it's an older Safety Devices you can't add the front hoops as it isn't legal (wall thickness). The best F cars are Euro SC's IMO as you get a lighter car, good HP, and no rev limiter (that alone is a BIG deal). I love the G50 tranny but a properly rebuilt 915 with a gated shifter (Wevo is my choice) shifted properly (= no power shifts) is fine. Next choice for me would be a solid US G SC with modded brakes, etc... which I believe is exactly what Fred is planning.

paradisenb

Thanks guys. I have had both an 81 SC and a 87 Carrera (G50) The 81 was/seemed quicker. Fast reving. I like the G50 trans better. I've checked out the weight ratios of the Euro Carreras and they are nice. These are not that common though. One sold in FL about 4-5 months ago. I was not in the market then and the guy was asking over 30k. Seemed high.
Car in ad looks like it is a bit over progressed for F. The 1/2 cage would have to go. Custom cage $3-4k.
My concern with the older cars is the syspension. TBs vs coilovers for 964 and up. I did not know the brakes could be changed. That is a big plus.

MJR911

The only difference in suspension is coil overs vs Torsion bars.... are you really going to be swapping springs at the track??

Gary R.

+1
I see no benefit to having coil-overs unless you are going to run different springs or need to go to a higher rate than TB's can accommodate. I run 31/23 in mine and that is plenty stiff for me in my G car!

analogmike

The 964s will coil springs do handle better than the older cars. It's a quantum leap. But they are also much heavier so "handling better" does not equate directly to lap times, even though the power and torque of the 3.6 is also a quantum leap. Check out the speed of the GTC1 cars for how fast they can go if you make them lighter (!).

Choose a class with good competion in your area and run with it. But keep in mind is seems like the faster classes are growing and the slower shrinking... E was huge at Sebring and a good 964 C2 can win.

Vampire

I thought most ran 225/245 hoosiers.

Regarding F or E class:
There are far more cars in F than E. It makes getting a podium in F rather difficult, but in E you can come in last place and still tell your friends you got a top three spot. The friendly competition is great in F, especially with the various models (911, 968, 944 S2/Turbo, & rarely Boxster) and different tracks will favor different models.
Most races have F in the slowest group. Some make a cut off between E and F and the E cars are the slowest class in a faster group when that happens. Not that it matters...

Gary R.

245/275 are the norm here.

Vampire

I heard Hupfer (F class winner) was running 15 inch 225s all 4 corners at Gingerman. What does he know that we don't?

chrisp

I would think benefits are gearing options, substantially lighter wheel/tire package, and for a given ride height the suspension is more in the middle of the range as opposed to being at one extreme like an aggressively lowered car (not unlike raised spindles).

Bill Verburg

They can w/ a bump in class, other wise not.

only the choice pfpads is free there

Cory Jump

Vampire,
I agree F is a really great class to drive in. the competition is always fierce and at some of the smaller races it can compromise of half of the field. I have both and E 964 and a F 78 sc prepared from G. On the east side of the country E is a large class and if I am not mistaken was even larger than F at Sebring. I am running F at Road America this weekend but E class looks really challenging as well. It is also interesting how in some parts of the country people think the fast F cars are water cooled front engine and in my part of the country euro sc's and prepared cars from G rule.

38D

Clearly they have not raced against Hupfer!