mrbill_fl

Not for a starter car!

BADDDD choice, imho.... too unforgiving, and limit is hard to reach. besides being brittle and expensive to fix.

agree w/ miata or 944.

mazda has a great racer support program, giving hefty discounts on parts.

SM is the best bang for the buck in racing today, short of Karts.

Lemming

A number of clubs do not allow Miatas in DE (BMWCCA), so keep that in mind.

JimB

Talk to the various shops around the twincities. Bob at Autoedge, Matt at Johnsons, Mike at Courtneys, etc. Also put a query out on Clubtalk (the local PCA message board). I don’t think you’ll have too much difficulty picking up a nice local car that’s been set up for the track. Feel free to email or PM me. I’d be glad to help. I promise I won't try to sell you the 996 race car I have for sale.
Jim

Veloce Raptor

Viper

Doug H

My experience is that is an easy car to drive and very forgiving. Car is very balanced and understeers when at or exceeding the limit.

Regarding the no power comment, I have no problem whatsoever keeping pace with just about anything on the track. Much faster than a spec Miata, 944 and quicker on most tracks than all but newer 911s such as 997GT3 and 997TT.

True, you don't want to wreck it because if you bend the aluminum tub, it is totaled. I use the Elise only for DE type of stuff and race Formula. I do agree that if the goal is to buy something to race, and not just for DEs or time trial type of events, than get something other than Elise due to cost of repairs if you wadded it up.

BTW, I am a Porsche guy, owened a slew of different 911s, and still use a 996TT cab as a daily driver. I am not anti Porsche and was very reluctant to get an Elise for the track until I drove it and spent some time in it.

Mike in Chi

You are the devil...

Veloce Raptor

Dat's how ah roll, dawg!

I agree with Doug--he has no trouble keeping up with other cars in his Elise, although his pwr/weight ratio does help versus fatassed cars with more power.

mooty

agree on both counts.

KRA993tt

Any car you take to the track will need continuous maintenance. It may not be overly expensive maintenance but regular up keep. It is less expensive in cars other than a Porsche. The groups you can run with in your area may direct you toward a particular car.

In the NASA southeast group they run a BMW spec e30 class that is very popular. I don't know a lot about the car but think it is about a 150hp car.

As you progress through the DE ranks you can progress into racing and have lots of other cars to run with. But this is with NASA here in the Southeast. If you don't have a similar group where you live that may be a poor option.

I went from a 993TT to my current 1982 911SC. I really enjoy the challenge of the older car on the track and the simplicity of the car in the garage.

Jerseybean

How about one of these...

cooleyjb

Even with roll bar/cage???

Lemming

Yes, Peachtree BMWCCA does not allow Miatas even with a fully-approved cage. Our local BMWCCA (HOD) allowed the first Miata at our Memorial Day DE at Barber just this year (full cage and hard top)!

Z-man

Granted, I'm biased, but they are good choices.

Why?

- With the 50/50 weight distribution, the car is very balanced, making it a very forgiving car. Get the back end a little loose, and you can check the time, drink some coffee, contemplate the meaning of life, and still have enough time to reel her back in!

- In stock form, the 944S2/951 are setup for understeering. Safer to learn on. As you get more seat time, it is very easy to dial out that understeer and turn the chassis into a more neutral handling car. Swaybar upgrades, different tire sizes will make a notable difference in the attitude of the car. Add a coil over suspension with heavier springs, and you can have a really dynamic setup.

- In terms of power, the 944S2 is a bit lacking, and there isn't much aftermarket support. So ya got 208hp. And that's it. As you progress in the DE run groups, you won't have the hp to keep up with most of the modern Porsches on the straights. If that's a problem for you, then I suggest looking into a 944 Turbo or 944 Turbo S. A big benefit of having "only" 200 hp is that you won't be able to mask your mistakes with horsepower. Blow a corner, and you'll likely pay for it for half a lap or so. This helps teach you how to drive the corners.

- While I agree with Jupe regarding a 914, the problem is that it does lack some of the modern stuff cars have these days -- like power steering, ABS & airbags, A/C for the ride home, a more comfortable ride...etc. Now some may argue that ABS is for wusses, I kinda like that safety net - even on the track.

- BTW: it isn't worth spending the premium that a 944 Turbo S goes for these days -- if you get a 944 Turbo, you'll most likely be modifying it -- and it is fairly easy to get a 944 Turbo up to 944 Turbo S Specs in terms of power and suspension. (Actually, you'll eventually want to get a stiffer suspension than a stock / M030 944 Turbo S setup). Save some $$ up front and opt for a 944 Turbo instead of a 944 Turbo S. Just my $0.42.

- I really think the 944 series is an excellent starter track car. Some of the n/a's can be had for real cheap, and even some 944S2's and 944 Turbos can be had for well under $10k. There aren't too many cars out there that are 15-20 years old that you can flog around a racetrack all day long, and then drive it home without any worries. The 944 is one of those cars.

Regarding the Lotus Elise as a track car: Recently, I spent time instructing in a Lotus Elise. That car is a go-kart on meth. Amazing handler -- it was like the car was demon possessed -- it just knew you wanted to turn even before you turned the wheel! My student, who was ready to graduate to the intermediate run groups, had previous experience on the track driving a 930, and he was able adjust his driving quite quickly to the Elise. If you have some seat time already, it isn't a bad choice, but I wouldn't recommend it for a totally green student. BTW: I saw some guy trailering his Elise on Rt. 287 in Franklin Lakes today -- looked like he was heading up the thruway -- Lime Rock, perhaps?!?

What is the purpose of requiing the flimsy fiberglass hardtop to be in place? It does absolutely nothing to help in terms of protection, IMHO.

And what difference is there, in terms of roll-over protection between a Miata (with the proper roll-hoops or roll-bars) and a BMW Z3 or Z4?

Hasn't anyone in BMWCCA heard of the Spec Miata series? If the Miata were that unsafe, do you think they'd have a whole racing series dedicated to that car?

Sounds to me that the M3 boys were just worried about being owned by a lowly Miata....

Sorry, but making rules like that (no Miatas in BMW DE's) is lame.

Rant over, (& sorry for the long post),
-Z-man.

Mike Buck

One the better drivers I know started out autoxing and then racing Miatas. He learned to drive his very well and has sinced bought a base C5. He is very fast in that car too now with very little seat time. Clearly, the skills learned in the Miata translated well to the "faster" car. IMHO, Miata's are a nice cheap relaible package that you should have no trouble selling when you want to move on.

Lemming

I have nothing to do with the rules, just brought it up in case he was thinking Miata. I was actually going to buy a Miata when I first got into it, but decided against it because I couldn't run with those two BMWCCA groups.

Actually, I don't think Peachtree allows any car that is listed as a convertible, including BMW's.

EDIT: Below is what they have on their website (also see http://www.peachtreebmwcca.org/ptDE_guidelines.asp )


Cabriolets (convertibles)

No cabriolets (convertibles) are permitted. This includes race and/or track prepared Mazda Miata cars, Porsche Boxster and 911cars, and any other vehicle that was factory produced in the form of a convertible!
Absolutely no exeptions will be made.