cooleyjb

Since they are in MN, for relevance to teh OP, the BMWCCA in Wisconsin allows Miatas at their Road America events. As does everyone else I'm pretty sure, except PCA.

Lemming

Does that PCA only allow P-cars or do they have something against Miatas as well

Robert W. Bausum Jr.

Link : The perfect fulltime track car!!!

I have loved this car. I just need to spend more time fishing!!

M758

DAMN... Is that roll bar made of carbon fiber wrapped titanium?




Seriously I am quite partial to the 944 NA. 150 crank hp, good balance and plenty of space to carry tires and supplies in the car should you choose to.

Z-man

I've seen a couple Spec Miatas running at NNJR PCA events....

I think the main reason you see most PCA events filled with only Porsches is because preference is given to Porsche cars for PCA events, and (at least in my region), the events get sold out with Porsches. Events that don't sell out completely will have some non-P-cars running as well. For example, NNJR's Mid-Ohio event a couple of weeks ago had a couple of C6 Vettes, an Alpha Romeo, a spec Miata, and a Chaterham 7 running in the mix.

-Z-man.

cooleyjb

P-cars only. Although I'm sure some of them might have something against Miatas. Chicago and Milwaukee can fill up a DE with just Porsches pretty easily it seems.

The BMW club however has a much more interesting group of cars that includes,

Ferrari 333sp
f40
raceprepped exige (i think it was race prepped not sure though)
ford GT
some vintage BMW stuff showed up last year just for a track tour and they were pretty impressive just to check out.

Doug H

Haha, that is funny and a great description (go-kart on meth). The steering is telepathic and the turn in is incredible provided the car is settled. The car feels and drives amazingly close to the Formulas I drive, for a street car any way. 50 more horsepower and it would be perfect. I usually give rides to 5 or so people every DE and they always exit the car looking like they have been beat or asking for Dramamine, but with a big smile.

Doug H

I think BMW CCA permits spec Miata provided they have a full roll cage. The CDI for Alabama told me that he will allow spec Miatas with full cages, not just a roll bar. I ques the same would be said for any other convertible. They did permit a Radical S3.

JayP

They have a temper though... depends on how the previous owner maintained the car so I've discovered.

I went thru the same exercise last year. Found the 944S prepped... so all have to bother with is maintenance. And a new tranny and some front end stuff... blahbla.

I don't know who said it, but the rule...
"Don't track it unless you're willing to drive it off a pier."

Drew_K

I was including shipping and paying someone to install it. I was off on pricing though - I thought the bar costs $600-$700 but it's actually $450. Figure $700 installed.

cooleyjb

He was referring to the K after the 1000 which indicates another 3 zeros on that thousand. 1,000,000 total.

M758

Ahh... track cars.

In 1999 I started doing autocross and DE's. At the time I used my 88 944 Turbo S. Great car, but it was a nice street car and never wanted to damage it. So I had the opprotunity to build a dedicated track car and it was the best decision I ever made. If you really want to do lots of track use it will be much more fun in track car.

So what makes a good DE type track car.

1) Cheap.
Car must be cheap enough such that if something bad happens you can just walk away and never look back. Even in relativly safe DE land mistakes can happen to event the best. The more track time to spend out there and the more you push the greater the risk. In order to have the most fun you can't be worried about wrecking the car. Just go out and drive it and everyday it comes back in 1 piece be happy. That way if it gets junked you won't feel like you lost anything.

This applies to major damage and minor damage. Track rash (stone chips) will happend and even a bent fender here or there. The key to track fun is to say... "Dang the fender is crushed in and rubbing the tire. Lets get hammer out clear the tire and we should able to make the next run session." Track cars are not queen's but appliances.

How cheap is cheap? Well the depends on your budget. Cheap track cars can be had for 5k to 10k. This considers buying the car and doing track prep maintence and maybe adding some safety gear which is really needed on any "track car" (Roll bar, harness). You can find track cars for more money, but I am not certain you can really drive a track car for much less.

2) Durablilty & Reliability
Any track car should be durable enough to last for a day out at the track. Every Porsche made is durable enough, but not ever car made by other companies are durable enough. You don't want to get a track car that overheats the brakes or breaks parts constantly.

Reliablity is a little different than durablilty. A car can be durable, but not reliable. The class example is any old beat to hell Porsche. This may be car that was not well maintained in the past and age and miles have caught up with it to cause many little failures. It will take time and money to make the car reliable.

3) Maintainability
Any track car will require more maintance that a street car. You need to decide if you want to wrench on it yourself or pay a shop. Clearly paying a shop means more money. So consider this when you pick a car.


4) Upgrade potential
This can be a double edge sword. Lots of upgrades are nice, but too many and you can easily fall in to a trap of buying speed rather than learning to drive. The best approach are cars with great support for chassis and very few "easy" hp upgrades.

5) Race potential & Resale
Any track car may slowly evolve in to a race car. One thing to consider is that the car you chose can make a transition to racing easy or hard. Some cars are very poorly classed or have very limited racing options. Others are much more open. Something to consider is if the car could be raced and where. Even if you chose never to race it a car built competitively for a popular racing class will either allow you enter that class or be more valuable in the resale market.


Those are some of the things to consider.

Personlly I chose an 84 944 to be my track car. Here were some of my reasons

1) Cheap - Bought car for $1400 as old beat up street car. My plan was to build it up slowly and cheaply so if I got wrecked I would not lose very much money as my initial investment was low

2) Porsche's are durable cars and if I stripped the car of non essential parts it would be lighter leading to less stress on the chassis have less parts to break. Simple simple simple and understressed was my goal. Durablilty has been excellent with very few constant maintenance items.

Reliablity was spotty in the first couple years, but has been rock solid in the last 5 years. Even with much more demanding racing duty over those years it just keeps going. What happened is that I needed I fixed all the little things wrong with the car. Between track day maintenance has been very very low. Bascily it has been oil changes and yearly brake pad changes. Not much else. This is how you want a track car. Gas & Go.

3) I wrench on the car myself. It is simple enough for me to do so and has many stock parts on it. Parts cost may be higher than japanese or domestic cars, but very few parts need constant work. Most just need to be replaced once or every 5-6 years. I heard stories of other guys replacing chassis parts every 2-3 events.

4) Upgrade potential. Lots of chassis options, but very limited hp options. This forced me to learn to drive with less hp rather than buy hp to get faster. With a weight reduction and moderate suspension work the car quite quick and a blast to drive

5) Race potential
When I first started the car it was going to be DE only and some autocross. In time I convered it fully to racing. The 944 spec class was taking off the ideal racing class since it's prep rules and philosophy matched perfectly with what I was looking for. Resale value is quite good for a 944 spec car and I'd figure even shop built you can get 70-80% of the money you put into the car back out.


If you are looking at other non Porsche cars consider

FWD or RWD- Big choice. Fun can be had in both, but I like RWD better

FWD
- Honda Civic, CRX, etc (any 4 cyl car)
- Nissan Senta SE-R

RWD
- Miata (spec legal)
- BMW E30 (non M3)
- BMW E36 (non M3)

There are probably 2-3 others that are also good low buck track cars that I can't remember right now.

mrbill_fl

well, maybe I'm just a bad instructor...

but I had a student, in an elise, snap spin on turn in, no warning, totally unexpected... student was a past p-car driver, in advanced group... last session of day... it suprised him too.

The thing with the elise, was, it allowed driving an early apex, at 8-9/10's and it just stuck to the track, like it was on rails, no wash out, or front end plowing... when I expected it would.

yes, its a great car... for the advanced drover.

I think its kinda like a GT3, you gotta be going pretty fast to find its limit, otherwise, its such a good car, you'll get away with suff no other car would allow.

imho... of course.

Lemming

They changed this for the Memorial Day event, prior to that, no verts, even with a cage.

TR6

Anybody run BMW 318's as DE cars? Reason I ask is that I've seen some mid 90's 318ti's fairly cheap (the little 2 dr hatchback) and it looks like it would be a good momentum trainer. 140 hp and the same suspension as either the E30 or E36 (I forget which).