I wrecked the Porsche
06-15-2007, 07:44 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by brucec59
Apparently, it's easy to gloss over this part of the article:
"While the number of supercars registered in California is up sharply, the rate at which they are getting into accidents is still small -- just over 1% -- and hasn't changed appreciably since the state began breaking data down by make in 2002. (The statewide accident rate for all vehicles was 3%.)"
So... accident rate for Supercars = 1%
And for all vehicles = 3%
Why isn't the headline, "Supercars Three Times Less Accident-prone"?
"While the number of supercars registered in California is up sharply, the rate at which they are getting into accidents is still small -- just over 1% -- and hasn't changed appreciably since the state began breaking data down by make in 2002. (The statewide accident rate for all vehicles was 3%.)"
So... accident rate for Supercars = 1%
And for all vehicles = 3%
Why isn't the headline, "Supercars Three Times Less Accident-prone"?
06-15-2007, 08:11 PM
#18
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I think it is more complicated.
I grew up in the muscle car era, and extensively autocrossed and modified a 1966 Olds 442 that I purchased new. Those cars had 775/14 Tiger Paw tires. You could make the cars oversteer, but with soft suspensions and 56% of the weight on the nose, they mostly understeered. When they did break loose, it generally was 1st gear parking lot antics. Most of those crashes were hitting something straight ahead.
Remember, those cars may have had an an advertised 350- 400 hp, but in actuality had about 100 less. 0-60 times and quarter mile times are readily beaten by an Camry today. With headers, carb rejetting, timing changes, and removal of the interior, my car had a tough time getting under 15 seconds in the quarter mile. 0-60 was probably 6.8-7.0 seconds.
A current Carrera GT or Enzo is much more like a Can Am car of that era, something I also owned and raced. But the Can Am cars, as viscious as they were, had 18 inch slicks and EENORMOUS wings. They were actually easier to drive than a current Ford GT.
The problem today is that NOVICE IDIOTS are buying real, street-legal race cars, and don't have a clue about what to expect. I have no doubt that a current CGT could have won the 24 Hour race at Lemans or Daytona in 1967. It probably could have won the Can Am championship at some point as well.
The people who typically drive these cars can't really drive them, and put themselves and everyone else in harm's way. Personally, I don't think many people can adequately handle a CGT, so selling one to them is like selling a loaded machine gun to just anybody. It is predictable that bad things will happen. AS
I grew up in the muscle car era, and extensively autocrossed and modified a 1966 Olds 442 that I purchased new. Those cars had 775/14 Tiger Paw tires. You could make the cars oversteer, but with soft suspensions and 56% of the weight on the nose, they mostly understeered. When they did break loose, it generally was 1st gear parking lot antics. Most of those crashes were hitting something straight ahead.
Remember, those cars may have had an an advertised 350- 400 hp, but in actuality had about 100 less. 0-60 times and quarter mile times are readily beaten by an Camry today. With headers, carb rejetting, timing changes, and removal of the interior, my car had a tough time getting under 15 seconds in the quarter mile. 0-60 was probably 6.8-7.0 seconds.
A current Carrera GT or Enzo is much more like a Can Am car of that era, something I also owned and raced. But the Can Am cars, as viscious as they were, had 18 inch slicks and EENORMOUS wings. They were actually easier to drive than a current Ford GT.
The problem today is that NOVICE IDIOTS are buying real, street-legal race cars, and don't have a clue about what to expect. I have no doubt that a current CGT could have won the 24 Hour race at Lemans or Daytona in 1967. It probably could have won the Can Am championship at some point as well.
The people who typically drive these cars can't really drive them, and put themselves and everyone else in harm's way. Personally, I don't think many people can adequately handle a CGT, so selling one to them is like selling a loaded machine gun to just anybody. It is predictable that bad things will happen. AS
06-15-2007, 10:19 PM
#19
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There is an old saying "More Money Than Sense". That applies to many that buy the Supercars and then crash them. In addition, obtaining and maintaining a driver's liscense in America is far too easy. We need better driver training (I am sure we all have our favorite teenage driving story or better yet NYC cab driving stories). Today's cars are amazingly fast. I owned an 88 M5 and today's Honda Accord would blow that car away in a straight line. Changes will come at somepoint, until then we should all appreciate that we are fortunate to benefit in the "new" golden age of cars.
06-16-2007, 02:18 AM
#20
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Originally Posted by paradisenb
What's missing is mileage driven per vehicle. I bet the supercar's crashes per miles driven is considerably higher. Many variables could be included or excluded to manipulate the outcome of the findings to fit the writer's prejudices.
06-16-2007, 07:52 AM
#21
It is not the cars. It is the drivers. These guys sound like guys who buy these cars as a fashion statement. 
Besides, cars like the GT3/RS, CGT, F430, CS etc etc and easily outperform the cars from the 1980's/90's on the track. They are quite capable track cars that CAN be somewhat boring to drive on our congested SUV filled roads. So, I can see a scenario where a person who doesn't track his car tries to "push" the car on the street and ends up losing control of the car. That is unfortunately why so many cars has TCS, EBD, VSC etc etc.
Besides, cars like the GT3/RS, CGT, F430, CS etc etc and easily outperform the cars from the 1980's/90's on the track. They are quite capable track cars that CAN be somewhat boring to drive on our congested SUV filled roads. So, I can see a scenario where a person who doesn't track his car tries to "push" the car on the street and ends up losing control of the car. That is unfortunately why so many cars has TCS, EBD, VSC etc etc.
06-16-2007, 09:10 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by 2BWise
What about the era of the muscle car. I wasn't around so I've got no clue about the number of crashes, but high horsepower cars on skinny tires, with lots of weight, with no safety features other than a seat belt.
I was aropund then and there were no seatbelts.......there were lots of muscle-car crashes.......guess the result.
06-16-2007, 09:52 AM
#23
This same article could have been copied from a Sportbike magazine report. It boils down to appropriate behavior on public roads. We all drive above the speed limit at some point, on the freeway, on a back road, late for a meeting, etc. How much discretion is used and how much risk one takes without caution is the true issue at hand. Doesn't matter if you're in a $140K 997TT or a $17,000 1098 Ducati.
Mike
Mike
06-16-2007, 12:23 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by fatbillybob
No smoking!
No Guns!
No fast cars!
The liberal government will decide what is best for you. Children please sit quietly with your hands folded...
No Guns!
No fast cars!
The liberal government will decide what is best for you. Children please sit quietly with your hands folded...
No rock music!
No freedom of expression!
The conservative government will decide what is best for you. Adults please drink the cool-aid...
__________________
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
06-16-2007, 03:02 PM
#26
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Larry Herman
No sex!
No rock music!
No freedom of expression!
The conservative government will decide what is best for you. Adults please drink the cool-aid...
No rock music!
No freedom of expression!
The conservative government will decide what is best for you. Adults please drink the cool-aid...
06-16-2007, 07:08 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
Willard,
They did have seatbelts. They were just a piece of cake to handle compared to what people sort of remember. Nobody (and I mean nobody) thinks that a Camry of Accord is too fast for an average driver today. That is how fast the muscle cars were. Due to skinny tires, torque, and no weight on the rear, they could burn rubber forever. But, a trip down memory lane in an actual car today will disappoint you.
They did have seatbelts. They were just a piece of cake to handle compared to what people sort of remember. Nobody (and I mean nobody) thinks that a Camry of Accord is too fast for an average driver today. That is how fast the muscle cars were. Due to skinny tires, torque, and no weight on the rear, they could burn rubber forever. But, a trip down memory lane in an actual car today will disappoint you.
