MJSpeed

Several thoughts...

1) How great does Fernando Alonso's decision to leave Renault and join McLaren look now?

2) How come Fernando and Hamilton don't have the excuse that it takes some time to get used to the new team, chassis and Bridgestone's? At least the Scuderia worked with Bridgestone for the last what 10 years and I'm sure they have a ton of info to give to Kimi...and McLaren doesn't. They're (FA & LH)producing results and Kimi is not...at least not what everyone expected.

3)Since Massa was a test driver and worked with MS (arguably one of the best test drivers) could it be that he has the "technical" upper hand on Kimi and therefore the car is being developed more to his liking? It sure seems that way...

There's no doubt that Kimi was/is fast...but can he do the other important things needed in order to make the Ferrari work for him?? It remains to be seen.

He's in a no win situation...

A.Wayne

JV was slighty above average at Best and he was in the best car , so he won a WC, if damon had stayed he would not have won a WC.......

I'm not suprised about Kimi's performance , it was rather expected , but i have seen this more often than not in this current F1 era started back in 95 , when the team priciples and Bernie realised they could control the sport not in past where the driver controlled , so now they tell them when to speak , what to say , how to behave, who wins , who lose (based on where they drive ),,,, Kimi's job was always to support Massa , Australia was a fluke as Massa had Tech problems , Hamilton will support Alonso , unless he has problems , it is the way of the show ,that supported MS to a brillant 7 WC, Enjoy !!!!!

As the fun begins after the green flag drops , exciting for me as the plot thickens when unplanned things happen on track, it changes the outcome makes it exciting , would,nt you say ...

A.Wayne

Not this year,
Massa was also ferrari's test driver at one point , He is Italian Heritage and driving a Ferrari, kinda like being a German driver driving for Porsche in the ALMS

multi21

And I think that is the reason many of us did not enjoy the Monaco race. There was no "unexpected" things that happened. There was no carnage in the 1st corner, minimal retirements or incidents. One could say that the biggest surprise of the weekend was Scott Speed coming in 9th in a race with low attrition.

MJ Speed makes good points in terms of why doesn't Alonso and Hamilton have the built in excuse of getting used to the car, team, tires. A. Wayne thinks the Ferrari's are a tick better than the McLaren's, but I say it's the other way around. Based on last year, I don't believe anyone expected the McLaren's to be this good... or this reliable, which of course goes into what A. Wayne indicated about the points based system being so close. It rewards consistancy and not necessarily winning.

A.Wayne

Nah, Ferrari is the best team with the fastest car currently....
Last weekend was MAssa Best performance at Monaco , he is not good there Kimi screwed up Q3 , and look to me he drove a conservative race , i had figured he would have finished 6th by ferraris' Strategy , but he was even more conservative than that as the point structure forced no more mistakes and we can only imagine the heat he is now taking by all of the dis-appointed Kimi is the best fans .....
So basically Ferrari had no jockeys for last weekend and the BIg mac had the 2 best jockeys currently for Monaco , both have won there before and love the track , the next race will be a better indicator

FredC

yep, but your assessment of JV is a little harsh. A WC happens when a top driver is paired with top equipment. He was a really good driver for 2 years and i would say he was better in 96 than in 97... but let's not digress.

A.Wayne

Yes ,agree , but for me Damon was faster and better than JV,, do agree you need the equipment not faulting JV for that , hence you need the teammate to evaluate the WC and Damon was better to me ....... just by the slightest of margins , by being better in the wet..

FredC

Absolutely - JV in the rain was a farce of galactic proportions.

MJSpeed

Well I used to buy into conspiracies a lot more than I do now...I don't think there's a conspiracy against Kimi going on here...I do however believe that Massa is a better test driver than Kimi, has the ability to set the car up to his liking and is quick too.

The difference between team mates in F1 also has a lot do with the drivers ability to get the team to focus on him moreso than on his team mate. Massa has a huge advantage here. He's been part of the Ferrari family for a long time and one could argue that it's been his entire career.

A little background on Felipe:

2001/2002- Over that winter he tests for Ferrari, because of contracts there's no room for the kid so he's sent to join Sauber (w/ Ferrari Engines). Rumors were he was a tad quicker than MS during the test @ Mugello...

2002- He competes for Sauber w/ Ferrari Engines

2003- He's sent back to Ferrari to be a test driver

2004- He competes for Sauber w/ Ferrari Engines

2005- He competes for Sauber w/ Ferrari Engines

2006- Rubens joins Honda and Felipe is promoted to join the "big" team where he competes for a couple of wins, three pole positions and several other front row starts...in Monza he gets a perceived vote of confidence or approval from MS as his hand picked successor.

2007- Well we all know what's happened thus far...

Felipe is part of the Ferrari family and has been for a long time...and Kimi isn't.

Juan Lopez

+ I think the mechanics can't understand Kimi's monotone........

multi21

That's why Kimi isn't as technical as Massa, no one can understand him

A.Wayne

Not a conspiracy , it is just the way the show is run , my statements are the same now as they where in Jan. Kimi was coming in to an already set situation , what is interesting for me is to see if he handles it better than Montoya , as he was enjoying the cat bird seat while at Mclaren ...

I don't buy into the new guy coming in deal. Historically if the new guy is good he takes over right about now... Massa is faster than Kimi , but kimi is also better than he has shown so far ....

MJSpeed

I think we're both arguing the same points...

Geo

I think that's it in a nutshell. The only comment I have is that I think the lack of technical orientation by Kimi IS seriously hurting him at Ferrari. They are used to serious technical feedback and if they don't get it from him but do from Massa, then Massa will get the attention because the team is still waiting for Kimi to give them some direction where he wants them to go with the car.

multi21

Kimi will sink or swim based on this if he is to truly acheive a WC or multiple WC's. His talent alone is not good enough to overcome his shortcomings in the techincal department.