UK Steve R

I don't think that either of us are lying. If you ask professional drivers what thier technoque is, I would be amazed if any more than 10% shuffled at the wheel of a race car. I would like to see footage of Senna shuffling the wheel. I would be surprised if he did it on anything other than tight hair pins. I was priviliged to know and race against 4 F1 drivers in the 80's and have known many international drivers since. Almost all do not shuffle the wheel. Ultimately its what works for you, but there are sound reasons why most pro drivers subscribe to the same point of view and I have seen so many drivers tie themselves up in knots by shuffling the wheel. I certainly do not advise anybody to let go of the wheel at any time during cornering and allow castor to unwind or unload the froint wheels. From that point a driver becomes a passenger. A 911 driver will want to unload the steering earlier than say a driver of a mid engined car. It is the physics of the car that dictate when steering needs to be unloaded never steering geometry.

Steve R

Russ Murphy

So I guess the question is then: Is an '84 944 a race car?

Veloce Raptor

And again (as has been previously stated in this thread more than once) we are not discussing shuffle steering here.

M758

In the tight hairpin Senna sufflles and allow the wheel to spin alot more in red LHD car than in white RHD drive car. He also get the Red car alot more sideways too.

TD in DC

It apparently is whenever someone is walking up to you in the paddock to explain why it is totally normal that you could keep up with their "stock" SC/Carrera/964/996.

}{arlequin

i use it to measure my g-sum

TD in DC

Show the video where you tied a pen to it and velcroed a pad of paper to your dash.

Veloce Raptor

Yeah...I've got your g-sum right here....

Don Magee

Educate me. On the loafer video, Senna frequently gets on the gas, then comes way off, then gets back on. Yet, Sir Stewart counsels not to get on the gas until you know you will not need to back off. Although I certainly modulate the throttle, I don't think I do it to the wide degree that Senna does. I realize Senna is steering with the throttle, but should mere mortals be modulating the throttle to that degree?

M758

Senna driving the red LHD car "reposition" his hands in one of long sweeping turns before the hair pin. Wheel was turned may 1/3 turn and he moved his hand back to a 10 & 2 position. Interesting in that sequence he moved one hand quite a bit more. I think it was all about comfort and control. I consider shuffle steer and time you don't have both hands at 10 & 2 on the wheel when straight. ( that means on T of 3 spoke wheel).

Technique's such as these are really hard to evaluate on film or with words. To really understand if TD (who started this mess) is doing things "right" or not you need better evaluate his lap times in his car on that track in those corners. First look at how fast the car is going and determine how much off "ideal" he is. THEN try to figure why he is a little off. Is it line and entry speed like in thread where he compared Data with Chris Cervelli, or it is poor technique not allow him to balance the car or causing it to be slow. Honestly I thing many of us would be surprised to see our own technique when driving. I have not reviewed mine lately and probalby would find alot of things to "pick apart", but in the end I am not sure any of them really would change my lap times.

UK Steve R

Ha ha ha. I've just made the classic error of reading the first post of a thread and replying to it without reading everything in between! looks like I've walked into a bloody minefield.

I'll let you guys got on with it!

Good to speak to you lot again anyway..

Steve R

TD in DC

don't go away. it is the exchange that makes this place interesting. It would be boring if it were the society for mutual back patting.

Veloce Raptor

Agree 100%

M758

My thoughts are those inputs are a result of him trying to get 110% from street tires. The car is suffering from a lack of rear grip and he is squeezing the power in all he can needing to make constant adjustments. Rememeber also that the power/weight in road car sucks compared to an F1 car so that power infusion is probably much smaller than he is used to in a F1 car so it feels like only little bit of power change.

I did find that intersting as well and have found myself doing that on/off throttle thing in places I am normally flatout, but where my rear tires have gone away and I am scrambling for any grip I can. I got WOT and then need to back off to keep it on the road then go back WOT when it hooks up. Maybe this is the same thing?

TD in DC

I am pretty sure that is his way of inducing trailing throttle oversteer to deal with understeer. I am pretty sure that both of those NSXs are nearly stock with a fair bit of understeer dialed in.

Rather than doing one massive lift, which likely would induce too much oversteer all at once, which would be slower and harder to control, he is blipping on and off the throttle to get the car to rotate a little more. He just stops blipping when he has rotated enough. Of course, you have to be driving close enough to the limit to get that to work. If you are not going fast enough, subtle input changes like that may not be enough (and yes, in some cars you can get understeer and yet not be going fast enough so that blips like that are good enough).