The ACO intends P2 to be for privateer teams, not semi-factory Penske Racing's Porsche RS Spyders, but then Porsche boss criticises Le Mans rules

The penalty that Harmut talks about isn't a penalty but actually an ACO restriction on P2 cars as they finished higher than expected in the Le Mans Series and the American Le Mans Series than expected. The aim of P2, as the ACO says, isn't to fight for an overall victory.

A Lola B05/40 AER finished 2nd overall in the 1,000 km of Jarama in Spain last year.

The article (obviously) doesn't have the info on the ex-Dyson Lola of Team Cytosport or the Creation / Judds of Autocon and Intersport.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56999

The ACO 5 % power reduction doesn't apply to P2 cars for 2007 in ALMS.

"The Lola EX257, which shall be eligible to compete in the American Le Mans Series in 2007, may start at its Laguna Seca 2006 configuration. The Lola B06/10; the Zytek 06S; the Creation CA06/H01; shall start at their Laguna Seca 2006 configuration, except that their minimum weight
shall be 890kg (up 30 kilos). All other cars in "LM"P1 shall conform to the ACO specifications, 2007.
The starting point for all "LM"P2 cars shall be their Laguna Seca 2006 configuration. Bulletin 06-
05 Para 2a shall remain in effect. All other new "LM"P2 cars shall use the 2006 restrictor table."

- http://www.imsaracing.net/2007/alms/...in%2007-06.pdf

 

Porsche motorsport boss Hartmut Kristen says rules still favor diesels - no P1 car

http://translate.google.com/translat...t/view/2821/1/

 

Nice shot of Mulsanne Congo.

 

I found it on google. I think it is from 1971.

 

The ACO intends the P2 class to be for privateers, not semi-works Penske Racing. They still were invited to Le Mans though, but turned it down.

 

Lots of personal ownership words being used there. Do you also saw that "we lost" at Sebring?

Come on now...Porsche certainly hasn't had the cards stacked against them consistently or they wouldn't have won as much as they have. If you want to talk artificial equality, I remember a little rule change that was prompted by Porsche's complaining that changed homologation rules to effectively eliminate the V8 M3 from competition after it ran away with the ALMS series.

 

That wasn't a rule change. BMW entered the M3 GTR with full knowledge of what was required. BMW received a waiver with the promise the car would be homologated later in the season. Never happened. How is that Porsche's doing?

Greg A

 

Perhaps I don't remember correctly but from the articles I read during the time, BMW entered the car when the rules only required 1 example of the car for homologation. BMW produced 10. The articles went on to say that the rules were changed to require 100 cars at the "request" of Porsche. This is all from memory, so maybe I'm way off base...perhaps I'll have time to search around after lunch.

Quick edit: Take this with a grain of salt, as it comes from Wikipedia, but here's a quick reference that I found:

Wikipedia Article link

 

As a matter of fact guys, Porsche hasn't been doing that well in racing at all lately. The marque used to dominate the GT field, but no more. Panoz, Ferrari and others have done a good job of developing and pushing their cars. Porsche seems to be more evolutionary. Porsche used to rely on its heralded reliability in the long endurance races, but lately they've kind of stubbed their toes and the others are getting to be reliable and fast.

In the prototypes, no one is going to push Audi for LMP1, it'd take BMW, Ford, GM, or even Porsche to commit the resources needed to beat Joest and Audi. That may actually be P1's demise. No one so far is willing to step up and take on that challenge.

In P2 Porsche is still suffering teething pains with the RS Spyder. So far even the mighty Penske hasn't got the measure of that car. It has moments of brillance followed by a complete debacle. With Honda/Accura now in the mix it might be a while before they do figure it out too.

Porsche has also changed its racing philosophy. The factory doesn't seem to want to be as involved as before, preferring to sell cars to customers that will then go race them. They still support what they want to, like engine programs and drivers for select teams, but you don't see the Porsche factory in support at venues like they used to do. You can have all the money in the world, but until you get the team together for a period of time, and get them gelled into a cohesive unit they won't be on their game consistently. That means you will have spotty performance throughout the field until those teams (the ones that stick for the long-term that is) do mature.

 

Bryan Watts,
You are right. But I'm a shareholder so that's the "we" part of "we lost". And if you knew the whole truth about Le Mans organizers, you would see where my comment was coming from. Take a look at the GT2 paragraph at the bottom and see if you can read into their intentions.

http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans...D_1267_gb.html

 

Greg A

Good call on the ALMS facts. You are right about the BMW V8. It was built, but only two ever. That doesn't seem fair does it? But they have another chance now with this new M3. But let's face facts, without Porsche would any of us be here on this forum? Talking about Le Mans? I love being the underdog. Porsche loves to suceed when the odds are stacked against them (us). So pull for you favorite car at this year's Le Mans race.

 

A news article talking about something that is NEWS (yes, it is NEWS that there are more F-Cars than P-Cars) is somehow indicative of the desire of the ACO to keep Porsche's from winning? Time to break out the tin-foil hats!!! Come on now...it's a news story, not the meeting minutes from the ACO rules committee.

I guess in the world of extreme Porsche fandom that the ACO wanting to see GT2 be a class of competition between multiple competitive marques instead of a Spec GT3RS class is somehow the same as the ACO trying to stop "your" domination. Here's the thing...was it really domination if there was no competition?

 

What's not fair? It met the letter of the rules at the time the car was built. The rules were changed to push the car out. That's the point of racing...to push the rules in order to beat your competitors. It's not as if the GT3RS motors at the time were the same as the motors you could buy in your basic street 996. Sure, you could get them in "special edition" GT3's, but Porsche had a distinct advantage in selling lots of those cars since it has a far larger and wealthier "club racing" program in the States and worldwide than BMW ever has. Both Porsche and BMW built motors specifically for racing. Both met the homologation rules at the time. The rules were changed to increase the number of required cars conveniently after the BMW ran away with the ALMS season. Porsche wasn't interested in upping their game to compete, so they lobbied for the rule change and ALMS became Spec-Porsche all over again.

I race a BMW, but I'm by no means a BMW snob. I like to beat Porsches with my BMW, but that's just because I like to win. If I were to go Pro racing tomorrow in Grand-Am or World Challenge, I'd probably pick a Porsche because you can't beat the support and factory development.

 

Not to keep Porsche from winning, Brian Watts, but to give others a chance to beat Porsche. If that means larger engines or more of a weight break, then that's okay. All's fair in love and France.
I don't want to be argumentative and I enjoy these debates, but this is a Porsche forum so my views will be slightly skewed. Plus I have a limited vested interest which may or may not be related to Porsche winning so races. I still think Porsche makes the greatest racing cars of all time and that includes any form of racing you care to name.
Where are you in Charlotte? We have a home in Mooresville we spend some time at. Are you still a Porsche pilot?

 

It is one one car. There were around nine Porsches at Le Mans last year with just one Ferrari.

Their intentions to let the public know that GT2 won't be a Porsche parade as far as numbers go?

There were nine Porsches at Le Mans last year with just one Ferrari.

There is just one Ferrari team from the Le Mans Series this year on the Le Mans entry list. GPC Sport recently got an invite because Rollcentre Racing sold their Radical SR9 AER to Embassy Racing and Embassy didn't have a Le Mans entry.

Rollcentre Radical SR9 Out; PSI Experience Corvette C6.R In:

http://www.the-paddock.net/content/view/241324/49/

http://www.the-paddock.net/content/view/241321/49/

Top four cars in FIA GT given Le Mans entry

- new agreement between SRO and ACO

(no Porsches given entry due to no GT2 teams in top 2)

http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans...D_1252_gb.html

2006 FIA GT1

1st : VITAPHONE RACING TEAM (team's Maserati MC12 isn't ACO legal...turned down request)
2nd: ASTON MARTIN RACING BMS (DBR9 to race)

2006 FIA GT2

1st : AF CORSE (F430 GTC)
2nd: SCUDERIA ECOSSE (F430 GTC)

Risi Competizione have two cars for the race (one under Krohn Racing).

http://www.risicompetizione.com/go/r...9801D909912AF0

2006 was the first time since 1991 that a Porsche or Porsche-powered prototype didn't win a class in the 24 Hours of Le Mans.

An automatic entry was given to two Porsche RS Spyders of Penske Racing even though the ACO wants the P2 class as a privateer one.

Tafel Racing didn't get in, but have they even raced in the ALMS before?

This link says Tafel Racing filed a request for the 24 Hours of Le Mans this year.

(Radical SR9 AER picture should be back for July, Lime Rock ALMS race)

http://translate.google.com/translat...e.php?sid=3119

In ALMS, right?

Porsche motorsport boss Hartmut Kristen says rules still favor diesels - no P1 car

http://translate.google.com/translat...t/view/2821/1/

Team Cytosport, lead by ex-Trans-Am racer Greg Pickett have purchased the # 20 ex-Dyson Racing Lola B06/10 AER. They plan to race in Utah on May 19th with Dunlop tires.

http://www.americanlemans.com/News/Article.aspx?ID=3038

Interview with Greg Pickett:

http://www.the-paddock.net/content/view/241368/49/