R Compounds vs. Street Tires
03-02-2007, 04:31 PM
#16
Rennlist
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The better you are secured in the car, the more you feel what is happening. GT3 seats are a good street/track compromise but high-bolstered race seats are better.
__________________
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
03-02-2007, 04:45 PM
#17
Race Director
Originally Posted by AllanJ
Question for you guys: Am I right that it might be easier to feel the tires starting to slip if you are held firmly in your seat? That way you won't have to process how much "seat sliding" you're doing compared to the tires sliding?
I for a while I could not tell when the car was moving around vs my butt. With race seats in my first autocross it was amzing to feel the car so well. Easily worth a second in 40 second autocross. At least for one with much to learn. Now I know what a sliding car feels like so it would not be worth as much.
03-02-2007, 06:47 PM
#18
Race Car
Two other tricks that I learned way back on my first-ever DE:
1) Keep at least one thumb flat on the front surface of the steering wheel. You can feel the front tires much better that way. And if you don't have power steering, it can save you from breaking a thumb from wheel kick.
2) Take out the lower cushions in your race buckets. Sit on the fiberglass and you'll improve your sense of what all four tires are doing. As a bonus, you get more headroom for your helmet.
The really simple answer to R-Compounds versus street tires, in my mind, is that novices are mapping out that zone where their tires' slip angle is ideal and grip is at its maximum. This is unfamiliar in a half dozen different ways when you're learning it, and it obviously involves a lot of overshooting and undershooting of the ideal speed at different parts of a corner. R Compounds will typically lose grip more suddenly and with less audio and 'butt-feel' warning than street tires. For someone seriously trying to get a sense of how their car feels right on the edge of its best adhesion, there's no substitute for a tire with a broader range of forgiveness. As we get more and more years of experience, we get much more precise in our perception of where we are, relative to the car breaking loose. Early on, I think R Compounds slow this learning curve down -- and they potentially create a big expensive headache (as in: a crash) every time we test the higher end of our cornering speeds.
I still run pretty often on street tires. It's also great for bragging rights when you pass those guys on Hoosiers.
1) Keep at least one thumb flat on the front surface of the steering wheel. You can feel the front tires much better that way. And if you don't have power steering, it can save you from breaking a thumb from wheel kick.
2) Take out the lower cushions in your race buckets. Sit on the fiberglass and you'll improve your sense of what all four tires are doing. As a bonus, you get more headroom for your helmet.
The really simple answer to R-Compounds versus street tires, in my mind, is that novices are mapping out that zone where their tires' slip angle is ideal and grip is at its maximum. This is unfamiliar in a half dozen different ways when you're learning it, and it obviously involves a lot of overshooting and undershooting of the ideal speed at different parts of a corner. R Compounds will typically lose grip more suddenly and with less audio and 'butt-feel' warning than street tires. For someone seriously trying to get a sense of how their car feels right on the edge of its best adhesion, there's no substitute for a tire with a broader range of forgiveness. As we get more and more years of experience, we get much more precise in our perception of where we are, relative to the car breaking loose. Early on, I think R Compounds slow this learning curve down -- and they potentially create a big expensive headache (as in: a crash) every time we test the higher end of our cornering speeds.
I still run pretty often on street tires. It's also great for bragging rights when you pass those guys on Hoosiers.
03-02-2007, 07:08 PM
#19
Lifetime Rennlist Member
Here is how I describe the tire choice...
You are doing a tightrope act while blindfolded. With street tires, you are walking on a 2 foot wide plank. You can wander around a lot and not fall off the edge and it is easy to wiggle your toes out there and find the edge.
With R-Comps, it is a 3" wide board. More risk but less wander to find the edge.
Slicks on a stiff chassis and you are on the tightrope. You always know exactly where the edge is (which better drivers prefer) but there is no room for error compared to street tires or R-Comps.
You are doing a tightrope act while blindfolded. With street tires, you are walking on a 2 foot wide plank. You can wander around a lot and not fall off the edge and it is easy to wiggle your toes out there and find the edge.
With R-Comps, it is a 3" wide board. More risk but less wander to find the edge.
Slicks on a stiff chassis and you are on the tightrope. You always know exactly where the edge is (which better drivers prefer) but there is no room for error compared to street tires or R-Comps.
