Timothy Stewart

What is the equivalent of "Spin - both feet in" for a
tiptronic or sportomatic?

Brake is obvious.

Is it required to get the car into neutral?

tim

Al P.

"Spin-get OFF the gas get ON the brake"

Last guy I knew that put both feet in while driving a tip mashed both the brake and the gas and it wasn't pretty.

Greg Fishman

Good question. If you spin and start traveling backwards you may damage the transmission. But I would be hesitant to tell you to pop the car into neutral as it may go into reverse (ouch) or it may distract you while attempting to do this and lead to a more serious situation.

Mike in Chi

The next line of the saying still holds:

"When in doubt, both feet out"

Tom W

Tim, were you instructing someone with at tip Saturday?

Timothy Stewart

Tom W -

Yes, as it turns out, I was (Silver Cab 996).

But, the question was prompted from the previous week-end
in a Sportomatic ('72, 2nd owner!)

My instuctions were "spin, brake & neutral".

The Sportomatic caught me off guard, the Tip less so since
it happened the week-end after.

tim

Karl S

Isn't the reason for putting in the clutch so that the engine doesn't stall? If that's correct, then you don't have to worry about that with an automatic. So brake only should be fine in a spin. The engine drag on the torque converter should help slow the car. If it's in neutral you'd lose that and not gain anything.

Karl

Greg Fishman

Karl,
Yes and no. It does keep you from stalling but more importantly it also keeps the transmission from turning in a direction it was not intended to do, as well as your engine.

richard glickel.

What the hell are you doing driving an automatic on the track for anyway?

Greg,

Seriously though, I'm wondering what happens to the formula and indy cars that are equipped with automatic trannies when they spin? Are they destroying the transmission every time OR are they so sophisicated that the on-board computer detects the spin and disengages the engine OR does the highly skilled racer simply depress the "paddle" while braking to achieve the functional equivalent of "both feet in"??

Richard

Greg Fishman

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by richard glickel:
<strong> OR does the highly skilled racer simply depress the "paddle" while braking to achieve the functional equivalent of "both feet in"??

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Since I am not in that league I can only guess <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> I believe they have a clutch that they can engage in various ways. Some may engage when you pull both paddles. Not sure if the CART cars have a floor or a paddle type clutch but they do have one.

Karl S

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Greg Fishman:
<strong>Karl,
Yes and no. It does keep you from stalling but more importantly it also keeps the transmission from turning in a direction it was not intended to do, as well as your engine.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Doesn't the torque converter prevent the engine from turning the wrong way? I'm no auto transmission expert but I thought the torque converter decouples the engine from the driveline in situtations where no power is being applied.

Karl

Vinny '98 3.8 C2S

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Karl S:
<strong>[QUOTE]
[qb]Karl,
I'm no auto transmission expert but I thought the torque converter decouples the engine from the driveline in situtations where no power is being applied.

Karl</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I think the torque converter doesn't care or know whether the power is delivered from the "engine side" or the "driven tire side". A spinning tire should act like power from the engine.

SundayDriver

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Vinny '98 3.8 C2S:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Karl S:
<strong>[QUOTE]
[qb]Karl,
I'm no auto transmission expert but I thought the torque converter decouples the engine from the driveline in situtations where no power is being applied.

Karl</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I think the torque converter doesn't care or know whether the power is delivered from the "engine side" or the "driven tire side". A spinning tire should act like power from the engine.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I'm not sure how it would behave. A torque converter requires a pump to move the fluid in the correct direction. In the old, old days, auto trans cars had two pumps and you could push start them. I don't think any auto trans has that today. If you push the car, it is NOT coupled to the engine.

Here is where it gets questionable. Since the car is running and the torque converter is full, it MAY tranmit wheel forces. I rather doubt it would do any damage however.

Al P.

Once the wheels are locked up it makes no difference which direction the car is traveling.

Mike in Chi

Good point Al. But once you get rolling again you may hear, and feel, the result of those locked up wheels -- thumpa, thumpa, thumpa of a flat spot.