Hans alternative ?
12-03-2002, 07:20 PM
#31
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[quote]Originally posted by MJHanna:
<strong>Gregg:
At what point in time will you do lateral (side) impact testing?</strong><hr></blockquote>
MJ,
I spoke today with the folks at Wayne State University about that. Long story short, we concluded it would be best to perform computer simulations for all products before we go on to crash testing. This will take a while to set up, and with the holidays here it will probably be late January before this is complete, if then.
The good news is that the simulations are, generally, very accurate. When we test we shouldn't have to hit it more than once or twice. If all goes well, we will have lateral load results for Isaac, and all other major products.
<strong>Gregg:
At what point in time will you do lateral (side) impact testing?</strong><hr></blockquote>
MJ,
I spoke today with the folks at Wayne State University about that. Long story short, we concluded it would be best to perform computer simulations for all products before we go on to crash testing. This will take a while to set up, and with the holidays here it will probably be late January before this is complete, if then.
The good news is that the simulations are, generally, very accurate. When we test we shouldn't have to hit it more than once or twice. If all goes well, we will have lateral load results for Isaac, and all other major products.
01-30-2003, 06:02 PM
#32
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by MJHanna:
<strong>Gregg:
At what point in time will you do lateral (side) impact testing?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">MJ,
We just finished some finely-tuned computer simulations for lateral impacts. It looks like the Isaac system will remove at least 50% of the head loads. I say "at least" because the computer model assumes the shocks are rigidly attached to the rear of the shoulders, when they will actually be able to move on the belt, which will help the loads.
These results are achieved without transferring any load to the shoulders themselves. The HANS device should offer about the same level of protection, but its design requires the loads be transferred to the shoulders.
We will keep you updated.
<strong>Gregg:
At what point in time will you do lateral (side) impact testing?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">MJ,
We just finished some finely-tuned computer simulations for lateral impacts. It looks like the Isaac system will remove at least 50% of the head loads. I say "at least" because the computer model assumes the shocks are rigidly attached to the rear of the shoulders, when they will actually be able to move on the belt, which will help the loads.
These results are achieved without transferring any load to the shoulders themselves. The HANS device should offer about the same level of protection, but its design requires the loads be transferred to the shoulders.
We will keep you updated.
02-06-2003, 10:14 AM
#33
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Probably an ignorant question, but always interested in my personal safety...
What kind of a safety jump is there going from:
1) No head and neck restraint to a foam "horse collar" (a Simpson one, for example)?
2) A foam collar to a HANS or similar device?
I hope to do some DE this year and have already bought a Simpson collar. Is it going to help me or not?
I appreciate all replies. Thank you.
What kind of a safety jump is there going from:
1) No head and neck restraint to a foam "horse collar" (a Simpson one, for example)?
2) A foam collar to a HANS or similar device?
I hope to do some DE this year and have already bought a Simpson collar. Is it going to help me or not?
I appreciate all replies. Thank you.
02-06-2003, 12:15 PM
#34
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"><strong>1) No head and neck restraint to a foam "horse collar" (a Simpson one, for example)?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">There was recently another discussion on the foam rings - the thought was, in the absence of anything else, the foam ring would provide some cushioning to slow down motion, however, not in the same league as Hans, Isaacs, and similar devices. Just got a Sparco catalog yesterday, and, fwiw, on their neck collar they said:
Designed with an anatomical rear support. It has been homologated after a very detailed examination by a team of 8 physicians who evaluated it's reliability in terms of protection from very strong impacts. A padding with different density degrees has been used. Thus, the neck support will be harder where it meets the base of the helmet and softer on the chin and in the rear areas, in order to reduce the burden of the helmet weight.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">There was recently another discussion on the foam rings - the thought was, in the absence of anything else, the foam ring would provide some cushioning to slow down motion, however, not in the same league as Hans, Isaacs, and similar devices. Just got a Sparco catalog yesterday, and, fwiw, on their neck collar they said:
Designed with an anatomical rear support. It has been homologated after a very detailed examination by a team of 8 physicians who evaluated it's reliability in terms of protection from very strong impacts. A padding with different density degrees has been used. Thus, the neck support will be harder where it meets the base of the helmet and softer on the chin and in the rear areas, in order to reduce the burden of the helmet weight.
02-06-2003, 02:25 PM
#36
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Elvis3327:
<strong>Probably an ignorant question, but always interested in my personal safety...
What kind of a safety jump is there going from:
1) No head and neck restraint to a foam "horse collar" (a Simpson one, for example)?
2) A foam collar to a HANS or similar device?
I hope to do some DE this year and have already bought a Simpson collar. Is it going to help me or not?
I appreciate all replies. Thank you.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">The "horse collars" are principally for comfort in that they will reduce neck fatigue on rough racing surfaces. They are especially popular with off-road racers. They are probably good for reducing soft tissue injuries (like sprains) that could occur with mild impacts, but I'm not aware of any studies on this subject. On the down side, collars can be very hot in the summer, and they won't help with injuries if the impact is so great that bones get broken.
Regarding hard impacts, say the 50Gs generated at the Wayne State University Bioengineering Center crash sled, an unprotected head will experience about 900 pounds of load (the lethal limit is 450 pounds), webbing-based products like the Hutchens will reduce the load about 50%, and the Isaac or HANS will reduce the load about 85%. One can see from these test results that the webbing proucts are borderline for a big hit, while the Isaac and HANS give you some cushion.
The problem with a collar is that by the time you compress the padding with your chin, your head is so far forward it will tend to continue rotating about your chin.
We were surprised to hear from some racers at Sebring (a rough track) that the Isaac system helped hold up the head during cornering. It wasn't designed to do that, but it makes sense given that shocks work in both tension and compression. This is consistent with the above-mentioned computer simulations.
<strong>Probably an ignorant question, but always interested in my personal safety...
What kind of a safety jump is there going from:
1) No head and neck restraint to a foam "horse collar" (a Simpson one, for example)?
2) A foam collar to a HANS or similar device?
I hope to do some DE this year and have already bought a Simpson collar. Is it going to help me or not?
I appreciate all replies. Thank you.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">The "horse collars" are principally for comfort in that they will reduce neck fatigue on rough racing surfaces. They are especially popular with off-road racers. They are probably good for reducing soft tissue injuries (like sprains) that could occur with mild impacts, but I'm not aware of any studies on this subject. On the down side, collars can be very hot in the summer, and they won't help with injuries if the impact is so great that bones get broken.
Regarding hard impacts, say the 50Gs generated at the Wayne State University Bioengineering Center crash sled, an unprotected head will experience about 900 pounds of load (the lethal limit is 450 pounds), webbing-based products like the Hutchens will reduce the load about 50%, and the Isaac or HANS will reduce the load about 85%. One can see from these test results that the webbing proucts are borderline for a big hit, while the Isaac and HANS give you some cushion.
The problem with a collar is that by the time you compress the padding with your chin, your head is so far forward it will tend to continue rotating about your chin.
We were surprised to hear from some racers at Sebring (a rough track) that the Isaac system helped hold up the head during cornering. It wasn't designed to do that, but it makes sense given that shocks work in both tension and compression. This is consistent with the above-mentioned computer simulations.
