Ed Newman

BTW, I am going off of recent conversations with our insurance agent about our business auto policies. We have about 30 vehicles and it is interesting to see that the average is about $3000 per and $2400 of that is liability. It does correspond to the claim payouts on the account. We have had 8 damage claims totalling less than $60,000, but had one closed and one still pending for liability (damage and medical on others) and they total 4X the damage claims!

P.S. DE claims are also cheap as they most likely will not involve medical due to the safety equipment.

pig4bill

[quote]Originally posted by Ed Newman:
<strong>P.S. DE claims are also cheap as they most likely will not involve medical due to the safety equipment.</strong><hr></blockquote>

??? The only safety equipment required by DE's around here are helmets and maybe long sleeve shirts. AFAIK no extinguishers, no special belts, no window nets, no nomex, no kill switch, no rollbar, no fuel cell, no special seats or special seat mountings, etc.

Russ Murphy

While helmets and long sleeves may be the minimum safety upgrades from the street to DE's, I think that if you look around at most events you'll see a significant percentage of folks with considerably more safety features than the minimum.

E. J. - 993 Alumni

I think Ed is referring to the on site medical staff and organizing club medical insurance if you have to be removed from the track in an ambulance. I may be wrong though, wouldn't be the first time.

User 41221

Out of curiousity, does anyone else think that there are more accidents occuring at DE's now than say, two years ago? I am also seeing more folks show up with "Hot Lap" timers and whatnot, which insurance companies might try to make a case that it "is" a timed event of some of the participants are timing themselves (or at least it wouldn't surprise me if they did try).

Regards, ...Scott

Robert Henriksen

I've done about 20 DE weekends so far in the last three years, and while there ahve been a few incidents w. bent sheet metal, there have been NO medical injuries. And on a 2.9 mile road course, the ambulance and EMTs are never move than about 3/4 of a mile away.

The cost from all the damage done to the cars put together wouldn't equal a single medical claim like Peanut's (assuming his insurance company (or the teenager's company) were actually paying on his claims!!)

I'm firmly on the side w. DEs making for safer drivers, and well worth the chance of some car damage for the insurance companies. Perhaps my experience isn't typical; the LSR region here runs very sober, well-controlled events. Or maybe it's just that the people who've been turning up for the events aren't a bunch of yahoos. Haven't been to DEs in other parts of the country, so I don't have a lot to compare ours to.

Edit: Scott, I think that anyone who puts a hot lap timer in their car for a DE is definitely increasing their risk of a denied claim from their insurance company.

Ed Newman

What hot lap timer? Has anyone seen a hot lap timer?

As for safety, alot of the cars are equipped with extra safety devices, there is medical staff on standby along with extraction and rescue and where on the street do you see tires and styrafoam lining your impact zone?

richard glickel

Ed,

I LOVE your new Porsche. Can't wait for Spring to see it in person at the track.

Regards.

Richard
'87 Carrera-3.6L

Bill Gregory

[quote]<strong> I am also seeing more folks show up with "Hot Lap" timers and whatnot, which insurance companies might try to make a case that it "is" a timed event </strong><hr></blockquote>

The distinction seems to be whether the sponsor of the event is timing vehicles, as in time trials. Anyone can look at their watch and time their individual performance, or use a stop watch, or a hot lap timer. Those are individual choices, versus, a sponsored timing.

Ed Newman

Since we are on the topic, I have been trying to find coverage for my car if I do use it in a timed full blown race. I found dozens of places in the UK and europe with on-track coverage, anyone know of an underwriter in the US? Obviously it would be expensive, but I would rather hedge it that way. $500/day to protect my car would be a worthwhile investment. That could translate to $10k /year, a decent revenue stream for the insurance companies. And with a $5k or $10k deductible it should work as a business model for 'non-contact' gentleman type racing such as PCA club racing and DE's

Robert Henriksen

[quote]Originally posted by Bill Gregory:
<strong>

The distinction seems to be whether the sponsor of the event is timing vehicles, as in time trials. Anyone can look at their watch and time their individual performance, or use a stop watch, or a hot lap timer. Those are individual choices, versus, a sponsored timing.</strong><hr></blockquote>

*I* agree with you, I'm just guessing that an insurance company could grab hold of that factoid & make what they could out of it.

M758

You guys bring up an intersting question.

Collision only coverage at DE and or Race Events.

Since most of the regular auto insurance (payout) cost is liability related it would make sense to be able to have affordable collision only insurance for cars on the track. Policys could be written to disallow liabilty claims and only cover the damages to the policy holders car on a no fault basis. Provisions could be made for a high deductable lets say 15% of the stated value of the car. This would be able to take into account the differing values of cars as well as different premiums. For example my race car is probably only worth $7k. For me spending $10k to cover the car is wasted money and even a $5k deductable is joke!. Of course these figures different for a new GT2.

To me this Idea make sense, but some I think most insurance companies see this as just another chance to charge inflated rates just to make money rather then be a "value" to us drivers. So I would not hold my breath on this.

C Streit

I use Nationwide and frankly have found that their service is ABISMAL!

When a truck backed into my 930;s door, they offered to paint the door only. WHen I asked "What happens if the paint doesn't match?" They responded that they would repaint it at the shop owners discretion. Now what incentive does the paint shop owner have to say that he didn't do a good job.

When a car in front of me in bumper-to-bumper traffic knocked a re-tread into my car, they said it was avaoidable and therefore they would not pay.

Now, if you ask an agent, they will say that both of these things should be covered, but they often will not go to bat for you. The adjusters screw you. Now... Can you talk to an adjuster before submitting a claim? OF COURSE NOT.

I recommend staying FAR awy from Nationwide...

K27

Given the very poor training and testing procedures to obtain a drivers license, I find it hard to understand why insurance companies are perfectly willing to take on the extremely high risk of a new driver and yet they will not cover you at a drivers ed event, conducted by professional racing drivers.

Ed Newman

All good questions... suprised no isurance guys on the board to input $.02

My car cost $117k, I have no problems covering a $10k damage if its results from a race. What I want to protect against is a complete total (chassis still has a certain value) or a fire, etc. I poked around some we sites in the UK adn they seem to offer this type of coverage. Total loss coverage or high deductible 10-25% of car. I would pay a reasonable fee for the right coverage. Someone suggested lloyds of london, I will try to contact them tomorrow.