boze_man

Hey all…Happy New Year…

I wanted to get some feedback, or maybe I just need to vent, but here is my story.

I am fairly new to DE and have been to the last 3 regional DE’s (which were also my first ever DE’s). I am hooked and was/is planning on attending the Feb DE in the coming week. I return from vacation and sign up via the website. I held off paying because I had two questions: 1) is it possible to show up late on the first day and miss a couple of runs ?? and 2) what run group am I?? (I am thinking I am a ‘solo’ student, but was not ‘solo’ on the website.) The reason I was asking my run group status was that I was also signing up for the Mar ‘solo only’ DE and at my last couple of events I was ‘solo’ on the last day or part of the last day and thought my team leader said I was now a ‘solo’ student. BUT the website said Blue group …hence the question. Are you confused yet?

As usual a day later I receive my email stating my ‘pending’ status, run group assign, car# etc and “please confirm payment” and so I email back “can you confirm I am blue-solo?” I get a reply copying the driving instructor about my question, but also get another “can you confirm payment”. Since my run group question went unanswered in the reply I then email a reply right back with both of my questions from above. Another email comes right back…”We have moved you to Wait List”. I say to myself, WTF?...and reply right back and say “if I confirm payment now, are we cool?” …Reply comes right back…”Sorry but, no”. I quickly phone and try to sort but get voice mail. We go back and forth over a few emails, me pleading to be allowed back in and him regrettably saying sorry. I try to explain my side but left it with “will see if we can shuffle the run groups to allow some more space”. I was pretty upset at the way I was treated and more so just mad at myself for not paying. <<<Just to be clear the above replies are summaries only, nothing rude went back and forth. I just condensed for the story>>>

I guess I was disappointed I was not given a reply like “just pay and we will sort etc” or “if you don’t pay now u will be moved to wait list”…I know this is a volunteer position and people don’t have time for all this emailing back and forth, but I felt I had been to the last 3 DE’s and was signed up for the next 2, i.e. a committed driver and club member, a good customer, right, and should have been helped a bit??

I know the rules state…”payment due at time of registration” but I had a question at an earlier event as well…..”I was going to be running a diff track than I was used to so I registered and emailed to ask if maybe the Green run group would be better since I did not know track etc”…We sorted that one out OK. So why diff this time?

Is it time for me to come back to reality or grow up and accept responsibility or should I have been treated a little differently?? I am one of those guys who gets something in his head and can’t let it go…I think they call it crazy or immature….not sure what the clinical term is. I was hoping to see what my conscience “the Rennlist family” would think…we all know what my wife thinks…”you are an idiot” but then again she is sane.

****ty thing is I may now have to miss the Mar ‘solo’ event as well. That event caused the problem in the first place. If they don’t think I am ‘solo’ material at the moment, by my missing the Feb event I won’t have a chance to be evaluated for the Mar…oh the irony of it...

Thanks for letting me vent…
Bill
‘bozo-man’ not ‘boze-man’

John H

My region would never recognize a three time DE'r as solo. My question is why would you want to be solo? The learning curve for me was very steep for the first 10-15 weekends.

Judging only myself, I would have been a danger out there in the solo run group where the expectations of all other drivers is that you are considerably experienced and wouldn't be surprised by a cup car closing on you at a 60mph diffenece for example. I probably did 15-20 De's before I was put in the solo group for the entire weekend. I still get other instructors to ride with me when I can.

In short, being signed off in green or yellow or blue does not have the same meaning as being solo and ready for the black or instructor "solo" group. Again, that is only from my experience in the mid west and mid atlantic region.

bobt993

Ditto as John said. Solo on 2nd,3rd day does not make you a solo driver. Take advantage of learning from instructors. Unfortunately, this means not always getting into every event and having to sign up early. AFter you move to "self-teaching" instructors will still be key in your advancement. Take advantage of the system. Your own example of running Green on a track you did not know should tell you that you are not yet a solo advanced driver. Advanced drivers self-teach and do so quickly. I have run unfamiliar tracks over the past couple of years and usually can put down a real fast lap in one to two sessions as do other instructors.

Sorry for getting punted from the event, but your best option is to admit your mistake and see if they can get you into an instructed group Green/Blue. Registrar has to deal with alot of students, solo, instructors etc providing miss-leading information for their own benefit. Because of this it is really a no-nonsense business attitude that must be maintained. In our region, the registrar lasts usually a year, max two. It just burns them out dealing with all the situations that arise.

ltc

What was your last run group assignment and DE history?
Were you in Green/Yellow and allowed to drive 'solo' for a run or two in Green/Yellow?
Have you ever driven in Blue/White (sorry, different PCA DE regions have different colors)
Have you contacted the DE Chair and/or Chief Instructor and asked for additional details? Do you know your local DE Chair/CI?

Ditto what John said. I really don't think you want to be in Blue/White Solo group after 3 DE's.

FWIW, there are always glitches in the system. It happens to everyone, especially if you do a lot of driving outside of your home region. One weekend I was in Black with one region, White with another region and then on another weekend, I was assigned to Green/Yellow with a 3rd region.

Don't worry about it, sign up for the next DE, have fun, be safe.

BrianKeithSmith

Your title says it all : "My screw up" - no reason to be upset with anyone else about it.
Now when someone else drops the ball - that's when you get upset!

paradisenb

Bill, bummer you may have lost the opportunity to drive in the Feb DE. I feel your pain. Hard one to swallow. I am, however, with the rest of the guys on this one. I think you should have just paid and sorted it out later. Registration is never complete until funds change hands.
In our region we have 5 groups. 1 and 2 are instructors groups. 3 is solo with checkout rides by instructors. 4 and 5 are solo. The groups are designed to keep drivers of similar skills on the track together so nobody closes in on some nubie at high speeds. Check out other regions. You'll get to drive different track.

boze_man

Good advice from all and very good points on the 'solo' and I agree... shows how diff the regions are…

In this region there are 5 run groups...Green, Blue/Blue-solo, Yellow, White, and Red. Blue and Blue-solo go out in one run group, don't mix with the faster groups. As a blue solo student you have the right to have an instructor with you, basically that is what u r paying for, the instruction. But if you want to take a run w/o then that is fine as well. My last event I was with an instructor on Sat and he thought I should try a solo run on Sunday. I basically did the whole Sunday solo. (I also did a 'solo' ride on my last run on my first DE weekend. I was a bit surprised by the whole weekend actually, but that is another story...) I have always been cautious and feel pretty humble with the DE, I have even expressed concern in the past that I should stay in green, but I have been told by numerous instructors that I am a solid blue student, not that I am fastest (which I am def not) but it must be because I am safe, know the basic line and have some track awareness. With advancement (at the lower levels) it is not the speed they r looking for it is the safety they r looking for, right????

I drive an older 911 and drive it fairly conservatively. A couple of my instructors have recommended to do a couple runs with an instructor then go out later and do a couple solo to work on what you have learned. I think both methods (less experienced solo or more) have merit...sometimes with no instructor in the car you can relax and focus a little easier...that is just my honest opinion...solo is only really about safety not speed, right?? Hell you are solo in the parade lap, right? Do I feel dangerous out there by myself after only 3 DE's (hell I was out there solo my first weekend on the last half session of the weekend)...to be honest, no…sure anything can happen (I did spin, see my old post) and will, but I found when I am solo I would act accordingly and slow down (this isn't a race, right?)…Am I looking to be a solo driver? No way…I am paying for the instruction right? I was trying to line myself up for an extra DE in Mar but ended up losing out on both…

boze_man

very good point...what is the old saying?

boze_man

funny thing is I even offered to be a asst registrar...shows you how much of a lunatic i really am.... then of course there will never be any problems...

thanks for letting me vent guys...enjoy the rest of the weekend

mpaton

It does appear from looking at the roster on clubregistration.net that there are already 34 entries in Blue for the Lone Star Region DE at TWS.

Why not consider what many of your fellow drivers in Texas do and do a Maverick Region DE. See http://mav.pca.org/Events/DE.asp to find out about their program. You'll find many of the same instructors there, the track is fun to drive, and the event well organized. If you haven't been there yet, you would likely be placed in the Green run group, and as the entries don't close for a couple of weeks, and there only seem to be 22 Green registered at present, it seems probable that you'd get an entry for February 24-25, just 2 weeks after the TWS event. Remember to send money though..........

Michael

TT Gasman

Boze, bottom line you shouldn have sent the money and let them sort it out at the track. Typically after a couple of blue run sessions you will be cut loose. But you know this, so next time sign up early, especially in green and blue as there tend to be a lot of cars.
LSRPCA runs a good DE weekend but they are slow to advance students for a variety of reasons. When i started I ran green for something like three weekends as the events were cut short due to rain. Once in blue I moved up to blue solo and yellow in standard fashion. I have run in the white run group the last 2-3 years. Solo is nice, but it helps to take an advanced instructor out every now and then, as there is always something to learn.
I might make a suggestion, if you are fed up with the local DE scene, do yourself a favor and sign up for a PDE event in Birmingham. The instruction is head and shoulders above anything at a DE. As they say 1 PDE= 10 DEs and I think that's accurate. It's expensive but well worth it IMO.

TT Surgeon

Ditto Doug!

Gary R.

Please elaborate. I'm club racing this year and need to save money, if I can get a 10-1 experience with PDE that would be great! And what is PDE?

paradisenb

Gary, I assume the PDE refers to the 'Porsche Driving Experience' held at Barber. I think they run about $3k/event.

Gary R.

Can't be, Porsche PDE's are for absolute newbies and are more of a follow the leader experience (at first anyway, maybe they offer an advanced session). Great instructors, great experience, but certainly not for advanced drivers. Maybe it's HPDE?