Hank Cohn

I have become interested in doing my own alignments and corner balancing lately. I have read several vendor websites that sell the equipment and describe the processes involved, namely Longacre and Smart Camber. I have begun a list of items that I think are the minimum required to do the jobs correctly. I am hoping to tap into the collective knowledge and experience of this board for some guidance and advice. My list of minimum items is this:

Ride Height Gauge - Longacre
Alignment Strings – Smart Camber
Electronic Scales – Longacre
Smart Camber Gauge – Smart Camber
Turn or Toe Plates – Longacre
8’ level – Home Depot
Scale Ramps – Home made

I have helped balance and align cars before using these products. The price is pretty steep at just over $3200. What am I missing besides good sense?

Thanks in advance,

Hank

SundayDriver

Hank,

I am getting ready to add to my gear - much of the same stuff you reference.

I am skipping the ride height gauge - I use a metal scale to the frame.
I have never seen general purpose alignment strings. Can you point me to these? On the SRF, I have a rig that attaches to the frame, with strings. Need to figure out something for the new car.
Scales - I am going to purchase. Longacre seems to have best reputation.
SmartCamber - I have one. Good peice.
Turn/Toe plates - I ave not decided if I need these.
8' level - I am probably going to get a laser level.
Ramps/Platform - I am going to purchase a platform.

You will probably also want a dial indicator and a good metal scale.

Hank Cohn

Mark:

Check out the Smart Camber web site, <a href="http://www.smartcamber.com," target="_blank">www.smartcamber.com,</a> and have a look at the Smartstrings. I have used this system in the past two weeks and other than the somewhat lengthy setup process, it works very well. I saw the laser level system and it does look great. I just hate to spend the money for something that you can probably do with a much less expensive device. I know you will be using yours at the track, but I would use mine in the garage where I can control the variables much easier than out in the field, so to speak. I also think I can do without the platen platform for the same reasons. Like you, I am somewhat undecided about the toe plates, but without the ramps, they seem necessary. Are you buying all of this stuff new? I have checked ebay and found nothing. I am sure that in the back of the SCCA magazines some of this stuff is available used. Let me know what other thoughts you have as you move forward in your purchase decisions please.

Hank

johnsopa

Hi Hank. I'll be following this thread with interest as I do my own front toe and will soon be doing camber all around and toe in the rear also.

Question -- what do you plan to do about the kinematic toe? I've been told that once it's adjusted for a particular ride height, it doesn't change with adjustments to camber, toe, etc. as long as the ride height is maintained.

Also, I've been searching for the right tricks for the Smart Camber device. I think the variations in my garage floor through off the device when going left to right. Do you calibrate the Smart Camber gauge on the section of the floor where the tires will sit before moving the car onto that space? (not sure if my question is making sense)

Thakns,

John

Hank Cohn

John:

You have a good point about kinematic toe adjustments. It sounds like you have read the manual, which describes the setting process and identifies the tool required to complete the job. In short, I plan on learning how to do the kinematic adjustment myself.

I think you are a candidate for an adjustable platform. Even though the Smartcamber device will allow checking camber on an uneven ground, I would want to give myself the best chance of a successful alignment. I’ll bet that you can build something that would be level and easily stored using wood or metal or some combination of the two that would make the surface level.

Longacre gives a nice tutorial on corner balancing that describes how to obtain the best and most repeatable results. Much of what is said could easily be applied to camber.

Hank

johnsopa

Hank, I have already epoxy-coated/painted my garage floors. I think I have about one inch slope for the 15' or so where the car sits. I was going to make a box perimeter around the car area then pour epoxy down to get a nice, completely level surface where the car would be parked to be worked on. I'll try to find a picture of this as done at race shops, etc.

Let me know when you find prices on the kinematic toe scale. I think it's around $600-$800. Ugh.

Greg Fishman

Hank,
Here is the equipment I used at my mechanics shop when we aligned and corner balanced the car.

Scales, flat pads with swivels so you don't have to roll the car back and forth when you change the toe settings. Camber gauge. Toe strings, he had the factory set up from a GT2. Metal scale for measuring ride height.
You could get by without the alignment strings (make your own) but it would make the process a bit more tedious as they wouldn't be on the car adn you would have to re-measure after every adjustment. Maybe call a few race shops that used to run 993's and see if they have them.

951Racer

I have tried most of the alignment stuff in my garage in the past and could never get the precision/accuracy that I wanted. As an example, I am going with 1/32 of toe out on each front corner and that measurement can be thrown off by simply pulling too hard or soft on one of the tape measures which can be the difference between 1/32 and 1/8th!
So after making this investment I found a local garage that has a $30k investment in an alignment rack that charges me $30 cash per half hour to align my car (a front end alignment takes exactly 30 minutes with setup). I give him all the measurements that I want and he dials them in. Sure beats the $300 per alignment that my local porsche shop was charging me!
What is missing at this shop are scales. So I am planning to purchase a set of scales when the new garage is finished. What I found was that the Rebco scales are cheaper than the Longacres scales with slightly more features in the computer at the lower price points. Oh btw, Longacres purchased Rebco last year. Just my 2c

ngoldrich

Oops, sorry, posted this separately...

Hank,
I had very good luck for the ART laser toe gauge and the ART laser string.
I used Intercomp digital scales and like their aircraft quality.

probably any of the top ones are good.

The laser equipt was good and high quality, but you can probably get just about as good results stringing it.

I used this equipment on : 935, Spice GTP, and Lola CanAm - Ie.. cars that are verrry low to the ground and all worked well..

With the prototypes, it was critical to make sure all wheels were square with the tub prior to adjusting...

Best of luck....

Norm

SundayDriver

Hank,

Thanks for the info. After I get the new car, I will have to try to find someone with the string setup to see if it will work on my car. Otherwise, I have been planning on getting a welder and teaching myself - this would make a good starter project.

I think I am going with the platform/scale setup from <a href="http://www.kodiakmotorsports.com" target="_blank">Kodiak</a>.

addictionms

Here are a few ideas to save $$

*toe plates, use equal sized sheets of aluminum with a little oil between them, works reat and costs about $30

*scales, check out the wheel load checker at
<a href="http://www.speedwaymotors.com/" target="_blank">http://www.speedwaymotors.com/</a>

Costs about $150 and gets you within 10-15lbs

*Sears sells the digital level module and you can use it for camber.


*4"x12" wood beam cut to pieces to work as platforms for the car to sit on to give you a workspace under the car.


*chalk lines with plumbs built in from Sears, so you can string the car.

I have used these tool to measure a pro setup suspension and I can get repeatable measurements. If you are going to be tracking your car, being able to do your own alignment is essential.

Jim

911pcars

I've got a corner balance worksheet that might prove helpful in recording/calculating the correct corner balance.

Sherwood Lee
<a href="http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars" target="_blank">http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars</a>

Hank Cohn

Just and update.

I checked the prices on the Kinematic toe gauges and the cheapest price I could find was just over $3200. I understand that someone makes a knock off set, but I have been unable to find the vendor so far. More updates coming...

Hank

johnsopa

Hank, I read or heard somewhere recently that a competent mechanic with a digital protractor could measure and set kinematic toe just as effectively. All that the Porsche kinematic toe device is doing is converting known angles into graduated sections. I'll have to take a look at the manual to see if I can figure out a good approach from the diagrams. Then, we'd just have to have someone convert the units to degrees of difference.

Does this make sense?

John

Hank Cohn

John:

That makes perfect sense. There are some excellent pictures in the manual and even on the back of the current Excellence magazine.

Very intetested,

Hank