Can a 996 owner be happy with a 944 track car?
06-02-2003, 05:44 PM
#16
Track Day
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Just a quick note. That "Mythical big brother" 944 happened to be at the 2002 OTC. Not only did it run the fastest time of any car at Willow springs that year, but it was faster then all the 911's entered in the event. It also ran in the 2003 OTC and again it was faster then any 911 entered. Jack weren't you entered in both those events? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
06-02-2003, 07:14 PM
#17
Race Car
Okay, okay, Mike. Take all the fun out of my antagonizing the 944 guys.
Wayne Mello is an off-the-charts great driver in an off-the-charts prepped 951. I'm not in his league by a longshot. (Then again, neither are most 951 drivers.)
Wayne Mello is an off-the-charts great driver in an off-the-charts prepped 951. I'm not in his league by a longshot. (Then again, neither are most 951 drivers.)
06-03-2003, 01:28 AM
#19
Burning Brakes
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Michael Marshall:
<strong>Just a quick note. That "Mythical big brother" 944 happened to be at the 2002 OTC. Not only did it run the fastest time of any car at Willow springs that year, but it was faster then all the 911's entered in the event. It also ran in the 2003 OTC and again it was faster then any 911 entered. Jack weren't you entered in both those events? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Did you notice Wayne didn't finish the OTC because his car blew up? Also, as Jack noted, it is a full-out race car. There was only 1 911 running on race tires but I can't remember how prepped it was. The closest thing to a radically prepped 911 was a 914-6 that won overall.
<strong>Just a quick note. That "Mythical big brother" 944 happened to be at the 2002 OTC. Not only did it run the fastest time of any car at Willow springs that year, but it was faster then all the 911's entered in the event. It also ran in the 2003 OTC and again it was faster then any 911 entered. Jack weren't you entered in both those events? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Did you notice Wayne didn't finish the OTC because his car blew up? Also, as Jack noted, it is a full-out race car. There was only 1 911 running on race tires but I can't remember how prepped it was. The closest thing to a radically prepped 911 was a 914-6 that won overall.
06-03-2003, 05:22 AM
#20
Race Car
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">There was only 1 911 running on race tires but I can't remember how prepped it was.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">The fastest 911 at the 2002 event was Michael Marshall's. 
06-03-2003, 08:41 AM
#21
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I think the original question </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Can a 996 owner be happy with a 944 track car? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">has been answered. I think all would agree that a 996 owner can be happy with a 944 track car. And why not, the 944 is an awesome car in its oun right and since its relatively cheap to setup and maintain, it is ideal for pushing to the limit without the fear of doing very expensive damage to one's prized 996. This thread was never meant to compare the 996 to the 944, that comparison would be unfair. What I notice at the DE events I attend is the occasional tracker drives his daily driver and the regulars usually have a dedicated track car. The fact that the 944/951 is the most popular car out there says something. And as an aside, since there are so many trackers with 944/951's at the track, help and parts are usually at the track as well.
06-03-2003, 01:00 PM
#22
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by JackOlsen:
The fastest 911 at the 2002 event was Michael Marshall's. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">And I would have got completely beat up in the 2003 event. My car is totally streetable and I drive it on the street all the time. It really has very few mods.
Yes Pig, I noticed Wayne's motor did blow up, but then again so did mine. So what,Jack said he had never run across a 944 that was faster then his NA 911. Just pointing out that he did. In the the 2003 event he blew a head gasket but it was fixed and they finished the event. My point is 944/951s are very capable track cars, plenty of them dont blow their motors and are very fast.
Now the reality is I think with race tires Jack could run times very close if not faster then Waynes car, but how many 911's are as modified as Jacks car is, and how much money did it cost? Bang for the buck, the 951 platform really is a great way to go, but it still isnt a 911.
The fastest 911 at the 2002 event was Michael Marshall's.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">And I would have got completely beat up in the 2003 event. My car is totally streetable and I drive it on the street all the time. It really has very few mods.Yes Pig, I noticed Wayne's motor did blow up, but then again so did mine. So what,Jack said he had never run across a 944 that was faster then his NA 911. Just pointing out that he did. In the the 2003 event he blew a head gasket but it was fixed and they finished the event. My point is 944/951s are very capable track cars, plenty of them dont blow their motors and are very fast.
Now the reality is I think with race tires Jack could run times very close if not faster then Waynes car, but how many 911's are as modified as Jacks car is, and how much money did it cost? Bang for the buck, the 951 platform really is a great way to go, but it still isnt a 911.
06-03-2003, 08:19 PM
#23
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I think you need to ask yourself what in particular it is that you want out of your track experience.
If you want to be the fastest guy at a DE, then pass on the 944 na. If you want to hook up with a number of other folks, whether it is to "play" at a DE, or have a real close race at at POC, PCA, 944 spec etc race, then you really should consider the 944 na as they are very popular in these venues and you can usually find someone to "play" with.
I've been tracking (first DE, and then racing) my 924S for 9 years. It is now a well developed race car and is competitive in PCA events. I have been to a number of races where there 15+ 924S/944 cars in my class. They were all similar in performance with driver skill being the determining factor. When you are in a group of six cars drafting into the chicane at Watkins Glen, you're not thinking about how much (or how little) power your car has...you're thinking about how much damn fun it is.
Obviously I am biased but, as a DE instructor, you see guys time and again who have too much car to experience things like throttle steering in a controllable, safe environment. The neutral handling and "sensible" power of the 944's allow people to work on such skills earlier and in an easier fashion. On the other hand, at DE's it can be pretty lonely in the instructor group, especially at fast tracks (like Mosport) when the majority are in higher HP cars. It is fun to give the other guys a run through the non-straight parts though. If, in these cars, you can't preserve momentum through good technique, line and cornering speed, you will be a stone!
Another thing to consider is reliability. As long as you change the oil, maintain the oil level, watch the CV's, bearings and wheel spindles and do other normal maintenance, these na cars are pretty reliable at the track. The more power (modified 944 turbo's) that you try to squeeze from essentially the same block/crank platform, the less reliable they get. Who hasn't been to a DE or race where at least one 944 Turbo hasn't expired in a cloud of steam or smoke? All this being said, maintaining any dedicated track car, including a 924S/944 na is an expensive proposition. I shudder to think how much I have sunk into my 924S.
Another car/class to consider is the 911 SC which races in PCA class. There is always a good field of these cars and they are known to be reliable. They also have the classic 911 handling characteristics if that is something you are looking for.
During the time I've had my 924S, I've also had street Porsches including a 968, a C4 (with the requisite handling upgrades) and a Boxster. I've tracked all of them but found none of them to be as satisfying or as fun to drive on the track as the 924S.
My advice is to check your ego, get a slow car, and learn how to drive better faster. Then go for the high HP if it still appeals.
GD
If you want to be the fastest guy at a DE, then pass on the 944 na. If you want to hook up with a number of other folks, whether it is to "play" at a DE, or have a real close race at at POC, PCA, 944 spec etc race, then you really should consider the 944 na as they are very popular in these venues and you can usually find someone to "play" with.
I've been tracking (first DE, and then racing) my 924S for 9 years. It is now a well developed race car and is competitive in PCA events. I have been to a number of races where there 15+ 924S/944 cars in my class. They were all similar in performance with driver skill being the determining factor. When you are in a group of six cars drafting into the chicane at Watkins Glen, you're not thinking about how much (or how little) power your car has...you're thinking about how much damn fun it is.
Obviously I am biased but, as a DE instructor, you see guys time and again who have too much car to experience things like throttle steering in a controllable, safe environment. The neutral handling and "sensible" power of the 944's allow people to work on such skills earlier and in an easier fashion. On the other hand, at DE's it can be pretty lonely in the instructor group, especially at fast tracks (like Mosport) when the majority are in higher HP cars. It is fun to give the other guys a run through the non-straight parts though. If, in these cars, you can't preserve momentum through good technique, line and cornering speed, you will be a stone!
Another thing to consider is reliability. As long as you change the oil, maintain the oil level, watch the CV's, bearings and wheel spindles and do other normal maintenance, these na cars are pretty reliable at the track. The more power (modified 944 turbo's) that you try to squeeze from essentially the same block/crank platform, the less reliable they get. Who hasn't been to a DE or race where at least one 944 Turbo hasn't expired in a cloud of steam or smoke? All this being said, maintaining any dedicated track car, including a 924S/944 na is an expensive proposition. I shudder to think how much I have sunk into my 924S.
Another car/class to consider is the 911 SC which races in PCA class. There is always a good field of these cars and they are known to be reliable. They also have the classic 911 handling characteristics if that is something you are looking for.
During the time I've had my 924S, I've also had street Porsches including a 968, a C4 (with the requisite handling upgrades) and a Boxster. I've tracked all of them but found none of them to be as satisfying or as fun to drive on the track as the 924S.
My advice is to check your ego, get a slow car, and learn how to drive better faster. Then go for the high HP if it still appeals.
GD
06-04-2003, 12:24 AM
#24
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Folks,
An addition to my previous post. I have no intention of "dissing" high HP cars. I believe that it is more challenging and demanding to drive a higher HP car to it's full potential than it is to drive a lower powered car to it's potential (given a similar level of chassis development that is). However, there are people out there who make the mistake of trying to compensate for their lack of driving experience simply by acquiring more car and as a result they take longer to develop the basic driving skills.
An addition to my previous post. I have no intention of "dissing" high HP cars. I believe that it is more challenging and demanding to drive a higher HP car to it's full potential than it is to drive a lower powered car to it's potential (given a similar level of chassis development that is). However, there are people out there who make the mistake of trying to compensate for their lack of driving experience simply by acquiring more car and as a result they take longer to develop the basic driving skills.
06-04-2003, 11:20 AM
#25
Race Director
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by GeoffD:
<strong>
...However, there are people out there who make the mistake of trying to compensate for their lack of driving experience simply by acquiring more car and as a result they take longer to develop the basic driving skills.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I completely agree!!!
<strong>
...However, there are people out there who make the mistake of trying to compensate for their lack of driving experience simply by acquiring more car and as a result they take longer to develop the basic driving skills.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I completely agree!!!
