cgomez

....and does a BSR stand any chance of being competitive in GT4S?

paradisenb

Very glad to see some movement toward a class for an affordable Porsche race car. My one concern about these cars is will they withstand the rigors of racing like at SMs?

I just bought a Boxster S for track use so, I guess I will be able to answer that question soon from personal experience.

richard glickel.

Colin's correct unless PCA adopts the rules of the other sanctioning bodies, like NASA and "boxsterspecracing" and creates new classifications that parallel the designations for the other boxster spec series like it did for this year regarding the 944Spec and '44Cup cars (PCA class = SP1, SP2, SP3), which it may well do now that it has the 944 Spec precedent to follow.

I suppose that the popularity of the series will factor into PCA's ultimate decision and it's a little too early to speculate on that. But I do suspect that the boxster spec will "take off" in a relatively short period of time. For right now, however, if one were to campaign a boxster spec in PCA for '07, the car would fall into that prepared class Colin indicates.

richard glickel.

The "S" isn't included in Boxster spec yet. I'm certain, however, given the popularity of the "S" version 986 that it eventually will have a place in "spec" racing. Again, I'm falling back on the model of the 944's, wherein there is a "supercup" class that includes the more powerful S2, turbos and 968's.

paradisenb

Richard,

I did notice that the 'S' models are not included but, (I need the HP to make up for limited skills) they seem to share so much with the base unit, I think their durability will reflect the overall capability of the model.

PeanutinCA

I too would hope and speculate that with PCA sharing close enough relations with POC that the chances they adopt Boxster Spec in the future could be good? I ran 944 Spec for a few years now. It wasn't really tight enough on the rules. The intention in Boxster Spec is to crack down early and crack down hard. Don't bother stepping in to Boxster Spec and trying to develop hp above and beyond everyone else, because it will be shot down fast. We are in the midst of discussing a Spec computer flash to try to eliminate the desire to chase hp. On the premise that once you have the spec upgrade, why spend more money to chase the same thing? Plus, we would be performing random computer re-flashing so, at that point your money would be wasted. With removing the cats there was some good gains in HP, hopefully with the computer flash/upgrade we gain some more!

Dylan.

38D

No. At best a BSR would be at best as fast an E car. So you are talking 2:13s at Watkins Glen and 61s at Lime Rock. A GT4S car has no restriction on weight, tire size, can make around 300hp and typically run Hoosiers. You are talking 2:07s at the Glen and 58s at Lime Rock.

At the races I went to in 2006 (Sebring, Lime Rock, Watkins Glen, Mosport, Road America and Daytona) there was never more than 2-3 944 spec cars. IMO, the people that build these spec cars will continue to run them primarily in the 944 series, and rarely run in PCA. I personally don't see why PCA would adopt any more spec classes in the near future, as it just seems to contribute to "class bloat". I'm not sure why we'd want another class with only 1-2 cars in it.

MLIN

Colin, I see your point, but hopefully PCA feels differently, because the concept of BSR really appeals to me.

M758

NOT ONE...
However back a few years ago 944 spec was in the same situation. Horribly slow for GT4S with no place else to go. That was solved when PCA adopted the 944 spec class rules.

If the growth of Boxster spec is as much as it could be then SP4 may be for Boxsters.

M758

Colin,
With respect to "class bloat" remember that 944 spec is new class to PCA. 2006 was its first year and it takes time to find and prep a car for the class. I really thing 1-2 cars at an event is great for a first year effort. Here Arizona and in So-Cal where we have been developing the 944 spec class for years we have some 80 cars. In Arizona 944 spec is the largest single class in NASA, SCCA and at our lone PCA club race last year.


When it comes to low cost racing classes there are a few options
1) 944 spec... These cars are 7k to built at home or 12-15k shop built cars complete with the car.
2) Boxster spec are more like 20k to 25k mostly due to higher price of donor cars. Right now BSR's are only slightly faster than 944-spec, but I expect that to change once more guys start pushing harder. Speed will come partially from chassis development and alot from driver development..

cgomez

Ok... I see...
But looking at the rule book it seems that if you build a BSR and withold from: - severe weight trimming;
- the front camber solutions (either camber plates or GT3 Cup A arms);
- LWFW (or bump one class up)
then you can run the car in F class with the benefit of being able to use wider wheels and a ECU reflash (both not allowed in BSR so you will have to change it back to OEM which is easy) and be somewhat ballpark competitive. Anything I'm missing in this thesis?

PeanutinCA

Joe is on the money with respect to speeds increasing with the Boxster as they did with the 944's. The 944 cars (at local tracks) have gained some 8 seconds as drivers developed to full spec and then learnt to drive them to the limit. At Cal Speedway, the Boxster was 2-3 secs faster than a 944 in the hands of a 'club racer'. But that car (Boxster) ran stock sway bars and was not completely dialed in. Whereas the other Boxster running that weekend in the hands of a pro driver was some 5-6 secs quicker missing 2nd gear and down on hp. So, not sure how those times compare to GT4-S, but they were 2:01-2:02 for the 944's and 1:56-1:59 for the Boxsters. As for PCA accepting the class? That's not for me to say, but why turn away business?

Dylan.

PeanutinCA

We are working with Powerchip on a sponsored "Spec" flash for a heavily discounted price. It's pretty much established with Powerchip themselves, it's now up to the drivers to agree? That way all the cars would be the same.

Dylan.

JC3D

Just curious, what is the hp and weight of a bsr?

PeanutinCA

As for hp, don't hold me to it, we have only done speculative figures using a G-Tech device (time issues). My understanding is the 2.5 has about 170 HP to the rear wheels stock. We tested a few stock cars with the G-Tech and got the same numbers. We also had comparison numbers from my 944 and were able to calculate the same factoring number of the G-Tech versus real dyno numbers. We then tested a cat/muffler removed Boxster and using the same factoring number, it came to over 190 HP dyno numbers. This is before the computer flashing which hopefully nets some more? If we can hit 200 hp to the rear wheels that would be great. But remember, this is a little speculative at the moment until we get on real dynos.

Here's how we got the numbers;

Dyno versus G-Tech = Factor
*134 V 90 = 1.49 (944 Spec)
**170 V 116 = 1.47 (Stock Boxster)
(* Dyno confirmed numbers)
(** Porsche supplied numbers)

Then the cat/muffler removed Boxster showed 134 on the G-Tech, using 1.48 as a factor = 198 HP dyno numbers. Seems high, that's why we speculate around the 190 HP mark. If someone knows more about the G-Tech factoring versus dyno then please chime in.

As for weight, it's currently 2,700 off track with driver. We are discussing lowering that closer to, if not at 2,600 pounds.

Cheers,
Dylan.