Fire extinguisher type....
04-07-2003, 08:54 PM
#16
Again, I can only speak from my experience of what happenned the only time that I've seen an engine fire on the track... By the way, this happenned in the red run group (our instructor group), so if anybody should know what to do in these situations, hopefully it's them.
1) The red flag was given.
2) The fire truck was immediately sent out. It didn't wait for traffic to come to a complete stop.
3) Due to the position of the sun as drivers were entering the bowl (this was at Pocono Speedway), some drivers didn't see the red flag. The fire truck was driving toward the oncoming traffic.
Part 3 was the incredibly dangerous part. The chief instructors for the event were incredibly unhappy that people blew past the red flag and the only defense that anybody accepted was that the sun was in their eyes (having drove the run before, I could agree with the argument).
Here's what I think you are describing. You happen to be right on the bumper of the car on fire. You see him pull off to the side of the track. You pull off right behind him and hop out with your extinguisher. Using this extinguisher, you help put out the fire on the driver and/or the car. Ideally the fire is still small and can be put out by the tiny extinguisher that we all carry.
I guess in this situation, it's probably a good idea to have an extinguisher. However, if you aren't right on the car's bumper and you have to drive to the vehicle, I'm willing to bet that you will more than likely be in the way.
You can do anything you like, but I'm on Russell's side. The only fire that I'm going to try to put out is one that's on a person. (or one that's in the pit/paddock as that's more likely to be small).
1) The red flag was given.
2) The fire truck was immediately sent out. It didn't wait for traffic to come to a complete stop.
3) Due to the position of the sun as drivers were entering the bowl (this was at Pocono Speedway), some drivers didn't see the red flag. The fire truck was driving toward the oncoming traffic.
Part 3 was the incredibly dangerous part. The chief instructors for the event were incredibly unhappy that people blew past the red flag and the only defense that anybody accepted was that the sun was in their eyes (having drove the run before, I could agree with the argument).
Here's what I think you are describing. You happen to be right on the bumper of the car on fire. You see him pull off to the side of the track. You pull off right behind him and hop out with your extinguisher. Using this extinguisher, you help put out the fire on the driver and/or the car. Ideally the fire is still small and can be put out by the tiny extinguisher that we all carry.
I guess in this situation, it's probably a good idea to have an extinguisher. However, if you aren't right on the car's bumper and you have to drive to the vehicle, I'm willing to bet that you will more than likely be in the way.
You can do anything you like, but I'm on Russell's side. The only fire that I'm going to try to put out is one that's on a person. (or one that's in the pit/paddock as that's more likely to be small).
04-07-2003, 09:01 PM
#17
All right... After reading the posts I'm going to concede the point that there is some value in having a fire extinguisher in your car.
Yes, if I see someone else on fire, I will try to help and put out the fire. However, I would hate to think that my car got in the way of the fire truck.
Again, if my car catches on fire, I'm outta there. I'm not sticking around to try to fight it. Perhaps if I drove something other than a Boxster, my opinion would be different.
Yes, if I see someone else on fire, I will try to help and put out the fire. However, I would hate to think that my car got in the way of the fire truck.
Again, if my car catches on fire, I'm outta there. I'm not sticking around to try to fight it. Perhaps if I drove something other than a Boxster, my opinion would be different.
04-07-2003, 09:09 PM
#18
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Let me preface this by saying that I am NOT an instructor in fire fighting techniques but....
If we could find a suitable instructor how many on the board would be interested in a fire fighting class? Nothing fancy, how to pull the pin where to aim when to get the hell away.
If we could find a suitable instructor how many on the board would be interested in a fire fighting class? Nothing fancy, how to pull the pin where to aim when to get the hell away.
04-07-2003, 11:21 PM
#19
For what it's worth, most fire departments sponser events like what you are describing at least once per year. I think learning these skills could be very valuable in the event of a fire in the house.
04-08-2003, 01:38 AM
#21
"If we could find a suitable instructor how many on the board would be interested in a fire fighting class? Nothing fancy, how to pull the pin where to aim when to get the hell away."
One source of such training is when SCCA conducts a corner workers school.
One source of such training is when SCCA conducts a corner workers school.
04-08-2003, 02:00 AM
#22
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Getting some kind of profesional instruction is VERY important.. even the approach angle to the fire car can be very serious decision.. in fact the whole thing is serious.. the potential for big injury to the uneducated is HUGE.. yes, a class would be good. and a visit to your local FD might be even better.. it would be informal.. and the inside info/stories may have you leaving the FD with a different attitude before you get close to another burning car.. an air bag is a potential bomb.. shock absorbers exploding.. various poison cynides..
If the driver is in danger of course rescue him/no question about that..
I don't do a lot of DE so I don't have an on-board system yet.. but I will be installing carbs, and an on-board system and a marine grade fume detector is a done deal.. starting a fume filled closed engine compartment is dangerous.. and whatever size extinguisher that you must have because of track rules is not good enough.. do at least 5 lbs, if possible..
so what do I plan to do if I have a fire in the remote areas of Montana or Nevada.. first disconnect the battery. my battery cable clamp is a marine clamp w/wingnut for quick cable removal.. if an engine fire I'll leave the 911 engine lid closed and smash the plastic lid grill and shoot the 5lbs of halon thru it, which is stored in the cabin.. Halon is great in enclosed spaces.. hopefully that will work, but it may not.. so I'll go for the 5 lbs of dry chem in the luggage comp., open the lid, etc. Magnesium fire is another story. if you don't get the mag fire quick, forget about it..
So again.. even being within a bomb blast of a car fire can be dangerous. don't be deceived by what you think is a small car fire........Ron
If the driver is in danger of course rescue him/no question about that..
I don't do a lot of DE so I don't have an on-board system yet.. but I will be installing carbs, and an on-board system and a marine grade fume detector is a done deal.. starting a fume filled closed engine compartment is dangerous.. and whatever size extinguisher that you must have because of track rules is not good enough.. do at least 5 lbs, if possible..
so what do I plan to do if I have a fire in the remote areas of Montana or Nevada.. first disconnect the battery. my battery cable clamp is a marine clamp w/wingnut for quick cable removal.. if an engine fire I'll leave the 911 engine lid closed and smash the plastic lid grill and shoot the 5lbs of halon thru it, which is stored in the cabin.. Halon is great in enclosed spaces.. hopefully that will work, but it may not.. so I'll go for the 5 lbs of dry chem in the luggage comp., open the lid, etc. Magnesium fire is another story. if you don't get the mag fire quick, forget about it..
So again.. even being within a bomb blast of a car fire can be dangerous. don't be deceived by what you think is a small car fire........Ron
04-08-2003, 10:28 AM
#23
Race Director
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Al P.:
<strong>Let me preface this by saying that I am NOT an instructor in fire fighting techniques but....
If we could find a suitable instructor how many on the board would be interested in a fire fighting class? Nothing fancy, how to pull the pin where to aim when to get the hell away.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Al: That's a great idea! Last summer we had those classroom sessions at The Glen: perhaps we should include more of those, including a class on safety which would cover proper FE use.
Brian: I'm not saying that you should race half way around the track to help put out a fire, but if you see a fire on the track, you should do your best to help! Sometimes that means "get the heck out of the way!" but at other times, it means "help put out a fire!"
BTW: I am curious: how many of you have your FE's plastic safety tab still on the unit? Granted, it's a flimsy piece of plastic, and adrenaline would run high if I were to use my FE, but I did remove the plastic safety: I just have the pin held in place by putting pressue on the handle with rubber bands. It may take only a split second to remove the plastic, but that's one more second before I can get to the fire.
Just my $0.42,
-Z-man.
<strong>Let me preface this by saying that I am NOT an instructor in fire fighting techniques but....
If we could find a suitable instructor how many on the board would be interested in a fire fighting class? Nothing fancy, how to pull the pin where to aim when to get the hell away.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Al: That's a great idea! Last summer we had those classroom sessions at The Glen: perhaps we should include more of those, including a class on safety which would cover proper FE use.
Brian: I'm not saying that you should race half way around the track to help put out a fire, but if you see a fire on the track, you should do your best to help! Sometimes that means "get the heck out of the way!" but at other times, it means "help put out a fire!"
BTW: I am curious: how many of you have your FE's plastic safety tab still on the unit? Granted, it's a flimsy piece of plastic, and adrenaline would run high if I were to use my FE, but I did remove the plastic safety: I just have the pin held in place by putting pressue on the handle with rubber bands. It may take only a split second to remove the plastic, but that's one more second before I can get to the fire.
Just my $0.42,
-Z-man.
04-08-2003, 12:34 PM
#24
Ok, I've done some searches on google for info. Here's one link that came up:
<a href="http://www.ci.savannah.ga.us/cityweb/FireWeb.nsf/127887e217eabdbb852569580076d85a/28e0bc9b744079aa85256b91007b2edd?OpenDocument" target="_blank">http://www.ci.savannah.ga.us/cityweb/FireWeb.ns f/127887e217eabdbb852569580076d85a/28e0bc9b744079aa85256b91007b2edd?OpenDocument</a>
The main thing worth noting are the last few lines of the page:
If the hood or dash begins smoking, pull over and turn off the engine.
Move quickly away from a burning automobile and remain at a safe distance. Call 9-1-1.
If there are visible flames in the engine compartment, DO NOT RAISE THE HOOD, it could flash over and cause you serious injury.
If you have a fire extinguisher, stick the nozzle through the front grill and spray the engine area thoroughly, then wait for the fire department at a safe distance from your car.
By the way, here's what I used for the search: "gasoline car fire safety"
Brian
<a href="http://www.ci.savannah.ga.us/cityweb/FireWeb.nsf/127887e217eabdbb852569580076d85a/28e0bc9b744079aa85256b91007b2edd?OpenDocument" target="_blank">http://www.ci.savannah.ga.us/cityweb/FireWeb.ns f/127887e217eabdbb852569580076d85a/28e0bc9b744079aa85256b91007b2edd?OpenDocument</a>
The main thing worth noting are the last few lines of the page:
If the hood or dash begins smoking, pull over and turn off the engine.
Move quickly away from a burning automobile and remain at a safe distance. Call 9-1-1.
If there are visible flames in the engine compartment, DO NOT RAISE THE HOOD, it could flash over and cause you serious injury.
If you have a fire extinguisher, stick the nozzle through the front grill and spray the engine area thoroughly, then wait for the fire department at a safe distance from your car.
By the way, here's what I used for the search: "gasoline car fire safety"
Brian
