VectorGuy

Hot from todays Autoweek is the announcement that the LeMans organizers require BMW to build 100 street cars before allowing the M3 GTR to run at Sebring, '02. BMW is crying that it is impossible. Finally, justice is served, and ruling shutting down dominance via loopholes is closed up. The cars may still run under waivers, carrying significant weight and HP penalties.
This will be interesting to see what develops.

Tom

Dominance via loopholes isn't stopped, just that particular loophole. The M3-V8 I thought was a cheater but it fits into history. They are a story similar to the '62 Ferarri 250 GTO (the most beautiful hyperkinetis sculpture ever made). And while Porsche did actually assemble the proper number of 917's for homologation, Norbert Singer and Jurgen Barth were masters of exploiting loopholes so I guess that has to temper our complaints. It ain't like OPorsche is totally pure.

JJayB

BMW motorsports historicly is never a long term player in GT racing. One to three seasons and then gone. Just enough to build a reputation that they race. Funny, you can't buy a BMW GT3R, but you can buy a Porsche GT3, just call Porsche Motorsports.
I don't like factory limited production cars in GT, it ruins the series. At a rumored $400K for a GT3R they really belong in GTS, where they would be very competitve against the Vipers, Vetts and Saleens. I hope they continue to race but in the GTS class. Rumor is that BMW is spending so much on their formula one, that other forms of motorsports may suffer, so it is doubtful that they will build the 100 cars necessary to compete in GT.
Jim B

James Achard

I too am interested in the outcome. I was saddened to see that Porsche is once again not putting in a factory effort in 2002 but glad to hear about the ruling. Speedvision has a very good summary of the rule changes. ACO Rules

Regards, James

Mike in Chi

Tom,

As much as I hated seeing Porsche butt being kicked in the only series the factory supported, I too can't blame BMW for exploiting loopholes. Porsche has such a long history of doing just that (remember the Dauer 962?), maybe it was payback time.

Mike in Chi

Doc

OK... the 962 was skating on thin ice as far as the rules are concerned however, in every other incident, Porsche did step up and build the required number of cars. As much as I don't like the Bimmer dominance, if they step up too, then they have every right to run. If they don't, then they have nothing to complain about. They should be glad they had the chance in the first place.

As for outrageous touring cars dominating a class, what about the Skyline being entered in the 02 season of Speedvision World Challenge. I don't even think they will be running in GT, but the Touring car class! At some 800hp and all wheel drive, (BONE STOCK!!!) things could get REAL ugly! Look out Pierre, that Skyline is about to lap you again!... Who knows, he may get lucky and bump them too… but with that AWD, I don’t they’ll have a problem running in the dirt and back on again. Too bad Pierre! So how long is that contract with Acura anyway?

Mike in Chi

Doc

If they build the 100 cars (and have 1000 of those race engines in their entire product line - the other shoe in the rules) it really will force PAG hand.

It's at the point where the NA sixes can't compete with the V-8s, especially race-bred V-8s like the Bimmer's. Porsche will have to put a V-8 in the car to remain competitive, or lobby to allow turbocharging in the GT class.

I hadn't seen that about the Skyline GT - What are they thinking. No wait, I know, maybe they are trying to recreate that video game.

M in C

Doc

Mike in Chi-town...

You bring up an excellent point, I don't believe anyone will argue right now that PAG needs a tremendous shot in the arm as for as racing is concerned. Let's face it, they pretty much have been resting on their laurels and other than the tease of the Carrera GT there has been nothing to uphold the Porsche racing legend. No production based winners, no LMP cars, no F1 contingency, etc.

While the latest 996TT and the GT2 are arguably the best "911" based model to date, (As far as street-ability is concerned) they simply aren’t delivering on the track.

I'm not looking to get in an argument about why they are doing it. i.e., cheaply built efficient cars make Porsche look good on the books. I'm talking about an unprecedented pedigree, built on many years of delivering the goods.

Well perhaps the technology learned from their SUV and the CGT program could be put into production with a TTV8 or possibly even NA V10 based successor to the 911, (we keep hearing rumors, but where is it???) And will it live up to the Porsche legacy? I suppose only time will tell. In the mean time, we Porsche enthusiasts may have too eat some more crow. I suppose all good things must come to an end. Is this the end for Porsche racing?

God I hope not.

Mike in Chi

Doc

I hate the taste of crow, too.

I think 2G2 is a big question mark as to factory involvement.

I'm much more hopeful for 2G3/4.

My guess is we'll be a new LMP (or whatever they call it) effort. As reported by other listers and elsewhere, Herbert says the sponsorship money is there. Personally I believe Weissach has been helping the Audi R-8 program and that will be transfered to the next Le Mans effort. After all, Audi came out of nowhere to dominate.

I think there will be a major effort to win Paris-Dakar, Pikes Peak, and Monte Carlo (if eligible). All their own marketing leading up to the Cayenne launch has been heritage/competition based. They'll want to establish this vehicle as worthy of the Porsche name.

GT will be based on the latest product line-up.

My guess for that stems from all the rumors about what's next.

To cover the performance marketplace would take:

Boxster - the entry level car

The visceral sports car - the raw, performance car, that a lot of the traditionalists feel is missing in the current line-up. Kind of like the 360 Modena.

A luxury sports car/GT - something to compete with Aston Martin, and the 550 and 456.

Not sure how either of these will be badged, but "911" (the evergreen name) will have a role.

The Cayenne - a vehicle to level out the cyclical nature of Porsche's business and take the spot in many p-car owners' garages currently occupied by an SUV.

Who knows if there will be an ultra-exotic like the Carrera GT. Ferrari obviously thinks thinks there's a market for it.

And you're right, a lot of the technology is transferable.

GT racing would get the RS/RSR version of the performance car.

F-1 is just too expensive for a factory the size of Porsche and with limited experience.

IMO, it's not the end. Instead we are getting used to a different kind of fast (to continue your analogy).

And hopefully, there's another feast in the near future.

Mike in Chi

James Achard

Mike, I like your "different kind of fast" analogy. I'm just worried that the excecutive board is getting way to greedy and is going to bag motorsports altogether(motorsports=expensive). We have heard all these promises of the Carrera GT and how Porsche is so profitable. Ok, so there super profitable, have been paying fo all the Cayenne RD while still being profitable etc. , and they still don't want to commit to any form of Motorsports. Something is just not adding up. . Motorsport got them to where they are today, I just feel that by not even commiting a factory effort in GT they are really going to hurt themselves in the long run.

Regards, James

Greg Fishman

Where did you hear this? If the car is turbocharged there is no way it can run in touring and if it makes that much hp and was eligible for GT I am sure they will require a serious restrictor or boost reduction.
Greg

Doc

Greg,

I heard it last summer while at the ALMS race at Laguna Seca. They had a showcase for Skyline and announced it then. I haven't read the rules for SVWC Touring Car Class so I don't know about the turbo issue, however they did say they would run in O2. Even if it is in GT they will still have a significant advantage.

Greg Fishman

Doc,
Interesting. I visit the World Challenge Board occasionally and I haven't heard anything mentioned (that I remember). If it comes with the 800hp the current competitors will be very surprised. Of course it will take a very talented driver to take a car with 800 hp (even in AWD) and put the power down with shaved street tires.
Should be fun to watch!
Greg

NickA

Now BMW Motorsports are "weighing their options"...which include pulling out of Le Mans, ALMS, etc.

Link: Speedvision.com interview with Dr. Thiessen of BMW Motorsport

Hmmm....

Konstantin

Sorry but I must laught till dead. I told them years ago that this was not fair!!
How they would feel if Porsche just make an engine change and put the V10 that developed for Le Mans in a Gt3 RAS and say. This is a production car.
You can buy a GT3 in every corner in Germany but you can not even order an M3 GTR no even for a milllion $$$$ period.
well it is really not fair to compate with a V8 against a 6 cylinder and with a much bigger engine against a 3.6 L engine.
I am glad to hear than neither the 6 Cylinder M3 not even the 5.0 L M5 engine is competitive against the GT3RS.
Wait until this sh...t SUV Porsche is ready. then Porsche will have the capacity to develope new race cars and then BMW will need a 10 cylinder (or bigger) to compate against Porsche ;-)

Konstantin
At least on the street M3 an M5 are far behind the GT3 !!!