How to drive a Carrera 4S?
01-28-2003, 02:24 PM
#31
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Greg Fishman:
<strong>Guys, don't bother with this fool. He won't listen anyway. I hope I am not in the passenger seat at his first DE, he obviously knows too much for his own good. He asks for help on an Internet Board and then procedes to tell those that are trying to be helpful, how we should answer his question and complains that we don't know anything about his situation. Maybe Mr. Schumacher should learn to phrase his questions in a better way first before he bothers posting again.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">There are some truth to what you are saying but some of you also had a lot of presumption with out knowing the guy. Lot of you don't know me at all and you never bother to ask me what my experience were before you started to judge me. So just because you are a net (or a particular board's) veteran, you shouldn't treat any new member as complete newbies.
Iyou think the newbie is cocky, maybe you can put some of that judgement on yourself too. Perhaps some of you sounds just as confident in some aspects as well?
Take it easy guys. Try to start over. Kent, perhaps you can introduce yourself and elaborate on your experience, and what you're looking forward to learn. C4S is a wonderful car.
If you have never driven on track, then road racing is a different animal all together. Even experienced autox'er will take some time to transition. However if you already some good fundementals, your learning curve will be reduced a lot. I hope you hook up with some good experienced guys. You never stop learning as long as you put in the seat time. Good luck.
<strong>Guys, don't bother with this fool. He won't listen anyway. I hope I am not in the passenger seat at his first DE, he obviously knows too much for his own good. He asks for help on an Internet Board and then procedes to tell those that are trying to be helpful, how we should answer his question and complains that we don't know anything about his situation. Maybe Mr. Schumacher should learn to phrase his questions in a better way first before he bothers posting again.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">There are some truth to what you are saying but some of you also had a lot of presumption with out knowing the guy. Lot of you don't know me at all and you never bother to ask me what my experience were before you started to judge me. So just because you are a net (or a particular board's) veteran, you shouldn't treat any new member as complete newbies.
Iyou think the newbie is cocky, maybe you can put some of that judgement on yourself too. Perhaps some of you sounds just as confident in some aspects as well?
Take it easy guys. Try to start over. Kent, perhaps you can introduce yourself and elaborate on your experience, and what you're looking forward to learn. C4S is a wonderful car.
If you have never driven on track, then road racing is a different animal all together. Even experienced autox'er will take some time to transition. However if you already some good fundementals, your learning curve will be reduced a lot. I hope you hook up with some good experienced guys. You never stop learning as long as you put in the seat time. Good luck.
01-28-2003, 03:14 PM
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ghettoracer, you said what i was trying to say...
glad to hear that some people support others first rather than taking them down at the knees. i've learned my lesson...being new to forums...it's just like other sports, some people are there because they are trying to slay dragons and they can't find any real dragons to slay. i know, i do the same, that's why i got my fingers bit off.
kent
glad to hear that some people support others first rather than taking them down at the knees. i've learned my lesson...being new to forums...it's just like other sports, some people are there because they are trying to slay dragons and they can't find any real dragons to slay. i know, i do the same, that's why i got my fingers bit off.
kent
01-28-2003, 06:01 PM
#33
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Kent: So, after all is said and done will you be trying this DE-track thing in the near future?
BTW: It is very easy on a web-board to read into posts and form opinions on a driver. Honestly, your comments on dealing with understeer made me question your understanding of handling dynamics.
And: no offense meant here, but you were a bit on the attacking side when your driving ability was questioned.
Just chill, get some track seat time, and post back what you've learned.
This board is kinda like driving on the track: intimidating at first, but you get used to the 'traffic.'
Regards,
-Zoltan.
BTW: It is very easy on a web-board to read into posts and form opinions on a driver. Honestly, your comments on dealing with understeer made me question your understanding of handling dynamics.
And: no offense meant here, but you were a bit on the attacking side when your driving ability was questioned.
Just chill, get some track seat time, and post back what you've learned.
This board is kinda like driving on the track: intimidating at first, but you get used to the 'traffic.'
Regards,
-Zoltan.
01-28-2003, 06:54 PM
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Zman,
Absolutely I'd love to do some DE events when I learn what one is...
I agree, when I was talking about understeer, I meant to say oversteer. It makes sense that that would sound novice...just plain wrong.
First, I will be attending a PDE two day session in Birmingham, then pick up my car at the factory in Germany. Then drive around Europe for two weeks before shipping it to Florida.
I've already been researching and trying to find information on "Track Days" and hiring instructors, or the such.
My initial question on this Post was designed to get some simple advice on handling characteristics of a particular car. As I've been correcting understeer in Fiats, VWs, and Hondas for years, it was simply good info to learn that the C4S has the same tendency...but of course much less of it, relatively speaking...(i have to be careful how i say things...someone out there is watching just praying that i'll say something wrong so that he can pounce on me.)
All my life I've anticipated learning to handle an Oversteer car...namely the 911, to finally buy one... and it not be RWD changes some factors. Glad to know it tendencies before figuring it out for the first time in the rain.
Later, Kent
Absolutely I'd love to do some DE events when I learn what one is...
I agree, when I was talking about understeer, I meant to say oversteer. It makes sense that that would sound novice...just plain wrong.
First, I will be attending a PDE two day session in Birmingham, then pick up my car at the factory in Germany. Then drive around Europe for two weeks before shipping it to Florida.
I've already been researching and trying to find information on "Track Days" and hiring instructors, or the such.
My initial question on this Post was designed to get some simple advice on handling characteristics of a particular car. As I've been correcting understeer in Fiats, VWs, and Hondas for years, it was simply good info to learn that the C4S has the same tendency...but of course much less of it, relatively speaking...(i have to be careful how i say things...someone out there is watching just praying that i'll say something wrong so that he can pounce on me.)
All my life I've anticipated learning to handle an Oversteer car...namely the 911, to finally buy one... and it not be RWD changes some factors. Glad to know it tendencies before figuring it out for the first time in the rain.
Later, Kent
01-28-2003, 08:46 PM
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Kent,
Try this group <a href="http://www.pbocflorida.com" target="_blank">www.pbocflorida.com</a> they do a lot of DE's in the Florida area. Also check out this webpage <a href="http://www.trackschedule.com" target="_blank">www.trackschedule.com</a> for dates at tracks in the south eastern part of the US.
Doing the PDE is a great idea and it will help you understand a lot not only about your car but about vehicle dynamics as well.
Frank, I understand what you are saying but the response by Kent to some well meaning people was not appropriate. I don't think Kent ever apologized but I will go first and say that I am sorry for how I said what I said, I could have made the point in a better way.
Try this group <a href="http://www.pbocflorida.com" target="_blank">www.pbocflorida.com</a> they do a lot of DE's in the Florida area. Also check out this webpage <a href="http://www.trackschedule.com" target="_blank">www.trackschedule.com</a> for dates at tracks in the south eastern part of the US.
Doing the PDE is a great idea and it will help you understand a lot not only about your car but about vehicle dynamics as well.
Frank, I understand what you are saying but the response by Kent to some well meaning people was not appropriate. I don't think Kent ever apologized but I will go first and say that I am sorry for how I said what I said, I could have made the point in a better way.
01-29-2003, 12:00 AM
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LOL, ha ha.
JC, right on? Great timing and humor!
It's humbling to apologize when you feel wronged from the get go, but then, if we weren't all willing for change and learning, we wouldn't be on here but running around in the world thinking we know it all and being the only one that thinks so.
I do apologize for being defensive. Us guys have to realize, we can't put on armour and join the crusades anymore, or fight a saber toothed tiger for survival, so we gotta do something to prove our manhood.
Yes, there is a time for humility and this is a good one. Group hug indeed!
Kent
JC, right on? Great timing and humor!
It's humbling to apologize when you feel wronged from the get go, but then, if we weren't all willing for change and learning, we wouldn't be on here but running around in the world thinking we know it all and being the only one that thinks so.
I do apologize for being defensive. Us guys have to realize, we can't put on armour and join the crusades anymore, or fight a saber toothed tiger for survival, so we gotta do something to prove our manhood.
Yes, there is a time for humility and this is a good one. Group hug indeed!
Kent
01-29-2003, 09:46 AM
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M in C,
I haven't really changed my mind, cause I'd been planning on going all along, but I just wasn't enthralled with learning how to correct situations that aren't as common on the AWD. Nonetheless, all of it will be beneficial, just would prefer to have AWD instead of the C2s they use.
Kent
I haven't really changed my mind, cause I'd been planning on going all along, but I just wasn't enthralled with learning how to correct situations that aren't as common on the AWD. Nonetheless, all of it will be beneficial, just would prefer to have AWD instead of the C2s they use.
Kent
01-29-2003, 12:52 PM
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Now that we are all getting along again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> , I'd like to throw in a question. I thought I heard that PDE was all 'ducks in a row' exercises with no instructors in the car. Does anyone know if that is true? If so, that doesn't seem like a great first learning experience. I would rather have a someone in the right seat feeling MY car with me. I would think that your average PCA or BMWCCA DE would be a much better value @ $150 or so per day than the PDE at $1000
-Aaron
'73 911S - G stock
-Aaron
'73 911S - G stock
01-29-2003, 02:27 PM
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Aaron, that raises a good question for sure..here's a list of what PDE said they teach.
"The Two-Day program begins with a brief classroom session discussing basic vehicle dynamics. Participants are then transferred to the track and begin a series of rotations through the Slalom, Skid Pad, Lane Change and Autocross exercises. The first afternoon is spent learning the proper driving line, mastering some of the more technical corners of the track and sharpening basic skills during a timed Autocross session. The morning of day two is dedicated to heel and toe downshifting with each group competing in the Michelin Autocross Challenge. Newly found skills are put to the test for the final exercise, a full afternoon of lapping the Grand Prix race circuit."
Do DEs provide the same/equivalent? Also, it may just be marketing, but PDE advertises having instructors of high caliber Porsche racing. I'm not bashing any other facility of instruction, but of course PDE wants one to believe that their instructors are the best for Porsche driving. I don't agree or disagree..
Thanks to your reply, I know too question the value of PDE, but would like a good description of the other options available...DE, autocross, private instruction, etc.
Thanks, Kent
"The Two-Day program begins with a brief classroom session discussing basic vehicle dynamics. Participants are then transferred to the track and begin a series of rotations through the Slalom, Skid Pad, Lane Change and Autocross exercises. The first afternoon is spent learning the proper driving line, mastering some of the more technical corners of the track and sharpening basic skills during a timed Autocross session. The morning of day two is dedicated to heel and toe downshifting with each group competing in the Michelin Autocross Challenge. Newly found skills are put to the test for the final exercise, a full afternoon of lapping the Grand Prix race circuit."
Do DEs provide the same/equivalent? Also, it may just be marketing, but PDE advertises having instructors of high caliber Porsche racing. I'm not bashing any other facility of instruction, but of course PDE wants one to believe that their instructors are the best for Porsche driving. I don't agree or disagree..
Thanks to your reply, I know too question the value of PDE, but would like a good description of the other options available...DE, autocross, private instruction, etc.
Thanks, Kent
01-29-2003, 03:27 PM
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Kent
Actually it's a Cart car at Indy, --Pancho Carter driving, or at this point, riding.
About PDE, you might tell your instructor you are getting a C-4, and ask for pointers, what differences you'll notice, how to get the most out of AWD, eetc.
Aaron
I did PDE at Road Atlanta 14 months ago.
You do at times have an instructor in the car with you, while the others follow in their cars.
At other times you rotate thru following the instructor, while he radios instructions to you. It works.
While I had a fair amount of racing experience before going to PDE (went with two novice friends), I thought it was a great experience. You have a lot of seat time doing exercises as well as lapping.
Remember as you work out the value equation, you are in their car at PDE, not yours. If you break or crash at a DE, it's your problem. If you crash at PDE, you pay the deductible and get in another car. (If you crash at Skip, you just get in another car. The repair is on them. At my Skip school two guys hooked their cars and went into the tire walls)
Actually it's a Cart car at Indy, --Pancho Carter driving, or at this point, riding.
About PDE, you might tell your instructor you are getting a C-4, and ask for pointers, what differences you'll notice, how to get the most out of AWD, eetc.
Aaron
I did PDE at Road Atlanta 14 months ago.
You do at times have an instructor in the car with you, while the others follow in their cars.
At other times you rotate thru following the instructor, while he radios instructions to you. It works.
While I had a fair amount of racing experience before going to PDE (went with two novice friends), I thought it was a great experience. You have a lot of seat time doing exercises as well as lapping.
Remember as you work out the value equation, you are in their car at PDE, not yours. If you break or crash at a DE, it's your problem. If you crash at PDE, you pay the deductible and get in another car. (If you crash at Skip, you just get in another car. The repair is on them. At my Skip school two guys hooked their cars and went into the tire walls)