smlporsche

My motor is bone stock as well. There are a couple of other guys that are within a HP or 2 of me and we're all stock. hmmm

You wouldn't happen to know an orthopod by the name of Al Cuellar. They live in your neck of the woods and were good friends of ours 20+ years ago...

smlporsche

Jim-

My friends car is a coupe and he is stymied as to why it weighs so much.

As far as your time @ VIR goes that's very quick. The best drivers in our group (of which I am not) run in the 2:18-19's when all the stars are alligned.

One of the reasons I bought a trailer last year is to go to more tracks and Mid Ohio is on the list. Maybe one day I'll see you there.

Jim Child

Ohio Valley Region runs an excellent DE in April. If you show up to that one I'll take you out for a ride and show you what a 968 can do.

trackjunky

Sorry. I don't know Al. Is he still a PCA member down here?

mjensen

I have been watching this F class post...Bill, my 86 turbo makes 186rwhp, stock, car is legal for SP3 or NASA GTS2 due to the interior gutted...

trackjunky

mjensen, have you raced with either NASA or PCA? If so, what have your results been like?

Overall, it seems like the performance of the non-s turbo is as stated by Porsche, whereas the performance of the S2 is greater than what has been stated by Porsche.

This is important, because the Porsche stated performance has been carried through into SuperCup (SP3). SP3 results show that at 2900#'s the S2 is almost unbeatable. In "F" the S2 is 33#'s heavier than the non-S turbo and still kicks butt.

Oddjob

The problem with the regular 86-88 F-class Turbos versus the S2s and 968s: 1) it can only run 8 x 9" wide wheels, so you cannot readily run 285s in back. 2) you cannot upgrade to the Turbo S/928S4/M030 calipers. 3) Gearing is much taller than the S2 3.875 R/P, or the 968 6 spd.

Powerwise, the S2 picks up some gains with headers, and possibly by tweeking the cam timing (?). The Turbo gets a pretty good gain when pulling the cat (reducing back pressure and increase differential pressure across the turbine). But the S2 will keep the acceleration advantage because of the shorter final drive. And even on long straights, many of the S2s are using the 0.829 Turbo 5th gear, so the Turbo still will not pull them on the top end either.



A well setup and well driven Euro SC is tough to beat in F. They have a 400 lb weight advantage, and can develop some impressive hp. Cant keep up with them on the straights and cant outbrake them.

If $$ matters in this decision making process, the 944S2 will be the cheapest to build and operate, with the 944T very close (arguably a little higher maintenance and part costs), and then a 968 (about the same operating costs as an S2, just a more expensive car to purchase initially). I think the Euro SCs are going to be quite a bit more expensive to build, and although the maintenance intervals may be longer, the engine and trans rebuilds are probably double that of the 944 series.

Rico Racing

The last reply noted the bigger brakes on the S2. S2 can run the big turbo S brakes. That is a big advantage and I think the S2 can out brake anything in the class, out handle the 911s but the S2 has a little less power than the 911. I also think the 911 guys will admit the S2 is less $ to maintain. I'm a 911 guy from way back but I love my S2 F class car.

trackjunky

Couldn't have said it any better.

(my car makes 189 rwhp w/o cat)

Vampire

The ’84-89 Carrera’s are also in F class and make up a significant portion of it. They are not mentioned much on this post. Does conventional wisdom just tell us that they are not the car to choose for “F”.

I also noted at Daytona and other races, that the G cars (911 SC’s) are at least mid pack or higher with the F’s.

MJR911

Mark Humpfer. Enough said. (I may have butchered his last name but the man used to make the F Troop boys shake in their boots... Euro SC)

Larry Herman

Hupfers motor isn't legal, or all of the stars aligned and it's the best one in the world. I've run against him a little, and seen his results over the years. There is no way that he can run a 2:10.9 in qualifiying on a HP track like Daytona based upon driving alone. He was 3 seconds faster than Gary Grigsby, and it is my understanding that handling is where the 968 has its advantage over the 911s. He then drove in Rod Johnson's 993 RSCS and could only manage a 2:10.4 in a car that should have almost 100 more HP. Phil Blackstone did a 2:07.6 in his RSCS. You do the math.

Back to the Carreras. Until other platforms were developed, the Carreras were at the front of the grid. The thing that limits them is not enough brakes for the weight that they carry, and not stiff enough suspension for the newer tires. The Euro SCs carry between 100~200 less lbs, on the same brakes with the same HP. And you can richen the mixture and adjust the timing to tune for headers, something that you cannot do with a motronic Carrera.

JimmiLew

The Euro SC is the car to have in F if you want to win and have the skills to be at the front. The key reasons are that the SC has a "tunable" air/fuel mixture, and the Carrera doesnt due its computer/chip based injection system. This allows you to legally dial in more HP. The second key reason is weight. Lighter=Faster with the same HP. Also, you can stuff meaty 17" tires with 245/275 tires which make loads of grip.

If I raced in F, this is the car I would have. Mark Hupfer runs this car and wins. Why? Cause he is a great driver with a really well set up class winning car. Immitation is the sincerest form of flattery!

MJR911

Larry, I KNEW that post would wake you up! I will admit that i've never met the man, just admired his driving from afar. Watching him pound Mike Ellis a few years back when I was even more young and stupid than today was eye opening. Ellis didn't claim foul... but there is also some saying about glass motors and stones...

Mark hasn't run the Euro SC much, spent some time in Grand Am but I notcied he's bringing it down to Sebring. I know Mark can drive his *** off, paired with a first class setup... thats the winning ticket in PCA. As far as his motor being legal, it's passed the tech shed teardown every event i've been too!

We made 204 rwhp with our fully rebuilt F class motor on a mustang dyno back in the day. What did your old steed turn at Cyntex before you overhauled and sold?

MJR911

JimmiLew... don't you know a thing or two about those old SC platforms?!