Ok, since it seems it's mostly instructors replying in this thread and I know a few of them...Let a non-instructor weigh in.

First, the very first DE I ever attended was at Sebring. Of course I had absolutely no idea what I was doing or what the p-car could do. My instructor asked to drive my car for two laps and I said yes (it never even gave me pause). These were warm-up type laps and not even close to full speed. Looking back, these laps were valuable because they were my first ever at a track event and it was interesting to see the layout, have him point out the apex (still figuring that out), turn-in, braking points, etc.

We pitted, I got in the car and for the rest of the day he instructed me progressively as I got faster. Maybe I was a rarity but he wouldn't even let me try to do 10/10ths in my car much less with him driving it. He was concerned about my line and my control (which I'm STILL learning after 20-25 events and several different tracks). At the end of the day, he let me sit in his passenger seat. That was a whole new level...but again, very valuable. I still remember his braking points at Sebring and still drive the line (with a few modifications for speed) he instructed me on.

The other interesting point is that whenever I go to a new track, I will either ask someone who I know (and who has a lot of experience at that particular track) to drive me a couple -three laps (either in my car or theirs, preferrably mine if THEY'RE ok with it) to show me the line, braking points, etc.

I'm in Gold Coast region in Florida (and have also done events with Suncoast Region) and I can say without hesitation that while I was in Green and Blue, I can't recall ever having a problem with an instructor or their instruction (ok, maybe a time or two with the instruction). Dan runs a great DE event and the instructors are the heart of the DE program.

As a final testimony to the DE program, I have returned my original car to the garage queen she should be and bought a second car that is now a full-on track car. In fact, I'm headed to Daytona this weekend for more instruction and to get my SCCA Competition License [as a means to getting my PCA license ]. It all started in DE with a great instructor who drove my car for 2-3 laps before turning me loose behind the wheel.....Damn him!

 

For a completely green student (i.e. first ever event), going onto a "race track" can (and most times does) make them nervous. Add to this the fact that they have no idea where they are going, and it can make it difficult to instruct. I taught at a Ferrari event a few years ago where the instructor is not permitted to drive the student's car. I didn't have my car there to take my student out, so we went out blind. Having to tell the student "OK, over this blind crest, the track drops away sharply and then turns to the right" is a lot easier when I'm driving than when they are.

Even for people with years of road driving experience, driving on the track is a new experience. People are nevous, they are trying to process the information they are being given, they are watching their mirrors for faster traffic, etc. Getting them to drive around a track they have never seen (especially one with big elevation changes, blind corners, etc) just adds to the work the student and instructor have to do. Like others have said, some of my students have asked "can you do another lap?" as we approach pit in.

 

I will reiterate some of the points I made and also other posted. When I have driven students's car is not because I asked, but because it was the policy of the group. Those laps were not at any sort of speed an were intended for point our the line, flags, etc. Really they were done at pace car speeds mostly for those familiar with racing. The intent for me was never to "check out the car" or do a "second tech" inspection. The only thing I attempted to do was to run "station wagon" type laps. Passing did not occur and all the other drivers were instructors doing the samething. Drive someelse's car at any kind of speed is something I would rather avoid. Too much risk for no reward.

 

This is mostly an issue for very very low or zero time students. Not all venues normaly have instructors driving student cars. At those, only a couple of times have I run into students who objected. I keep an open mind, but if the student is then difficult to teach (others have touched on the benfits of the instructor driving) then I usually decline to continue the next session. If the student has enough aptitude to overcome skipping the demo (ie: they pick up a reasonable line quickly) then I'll continue. It's that simple.

 

Greg,
Nope, as far as I'm concerned, not the wrong answer at all. I use every safety part I have, but the suit...too hot here in Florida without a cool suit set up and haven't yet decided on it at this point. I actually don't compromise my safety gear by not using it when, in those rare instances, I take a student out with me.
Different strokes, different folks.
I think now we're closer than ever to a reasonable approach and compromise...I just try to strive for consistency throughout the regions and venues.

 

M758,
I'm with you on the gearing question. I, unfortunately (?!?), do not have a track seat or harnesses for the passenger...so, I guess I'm just out of luck in taking them for a ride. I should get that corrected.

 

And if you correct your passenger seat, your car will be 25lbs lighter!!

 

First I want to apologize for posting 3 consecutive times...I beg your indulgence. But I'm traveling and must be losing my way!
But PedroNole--you are the man! Your post was perfect and "right on the money" as far as I'm concerned.
We probably have met somewhere along the line, but at the next event be sure to say hi. I'm glad you're a fellow member of the GoldCoast Region.

 

Mitch, point taken, but: if I put in the track seat (and encourage the students to ask for that ride) and save the 25lbs, won't I go strictly to the back of the line and not pass go and not collect the $200 when I put my 200lb student in my car..albeit 8/10ths? Net result +175lbs...did I miscalculate yet again, hehehe.

 

BTW, agio, I'm sure it was you instructing PedroNole in his avatar!!

 

I have never forced or pressed a student to let me "drove" their car. I only recomend this to 0.0 Greens and to low hour students that are at a new to them track and let them decide. Most say "Good idea!" before and "thanks!" after. I too, have had students aks for a few more in the right seat. I don't need to drive a car to feel how it drives, my butt lets me know lots. It helps some but is not required at all. Treating student, instructor and cars with respect is all that is needed. 0.0 tunnel vision is real and there is no silver bullet cure. A ride with comentary is the best I have found so far.

it is good the hear what students think on this. Mine have all been on the + side so far but this is nly a small data pool.

 

Interstingly I have done a once or twice pre-rides. These are before the the track is hot. Instructor takes the student our in the instructor car for 2-3 laps NO HELMETS and points out flag stands basic line etc. Nice to be able to explain without all the normal crap forcing yelling or the intimdation that comes with helmets to newbies.

 

Other groups like TracQuest and Chin do this. They call it "ducks in a row" and speeds are normally 80mph max. I think it is pretty useful for noobs.

 

Dan did this at the last Gold Coast Sebring event and I thought it was a great idea.

 

agio-

Thanks. I'm sure we have met but I don't usually introduce myself as PedroNole I've been driving a black 993 convertible and will now drive an Iris Blue '86 911. Not sure when my next PCA event will be.

Peter