And of course no one (well almost no one) at the track knows who the heck Agio is........still wondering on that one!! Maybe Mitch knows.

Peter I hope it will be at Moroso!

 

Actually, I've had only one student to my recollection who turned me down to drive for the 1st couple of laps. She was driving a beautiful red Ferrari (who could blame her, hehehe). I so wanted to drive her FIAT, but she refused. This was an easy decision for me because I found out (through the interview process) that she was an advanced student who knew the car and the track very well. As it turned out, she was an excellent student.
In another instance, I drove a student's car less than a full lap and realized that it was a virtual coffin on wheels: Plenty of "go," but no brakes to stop; redefined floor board (as in there was a "see through" wooden platform; a real smell of gasoline when apexing; a big block American engine in the body of a small import (yikes!); a steerling wheel which had a mind of its own and, finally, a gear box/shifter which looked like left over tools from an ER. I refused to continue with him (as it turned out the car never re-fired anyway), so my session, as well as his, was over.
Funny, that tech never "caught" these faults before track time...hmmm.

 

Agio,

Do you guys have specific shops that tech's are accepted from, or can any shop do one? Obviously the wooden floor car was never checked by anyone that could be considered a mechanic.

 

Our club has gotten very specific about which shops can do tech, and quite stringent when it comes to "out of region" tech'd cars. Those usually get special care in the tech line.

 

I don't think any instructor would get in a car that has a see-through wooden floor. I don't understand why one would even ask/demand to drive one.

 

could be viewed as a safety option. (1) Brakes; (2) Emergency Brake; (3) Fled Flintstone "Feet Don't Fail Me Now" Brakes (provided of course that you are wearing proper Nomex driving shoes).

 

SJanes: "Do you guys have specific shops that tech's are accepted from, or can any shop do one? Obviously the wooden floor car was never checked by anyone that could be considered a mechanic."
Yep, we do have certified shops where one is supposed to go for the pre tech, although it varies depending on that particular club whose event it is. There also supposed to be a final tech on the day of the event. Were these techs thoroughly done in this case, I don't really know, but can't imagine that they were appropriately done. But, nonetheless, it happened. And yes, I complained to tech right then and there and while this official understood my concerns, he didn't have a adequate answer how such defects could slip by. I told him that I would not instruct in this car and I would be happy to be assigned another student...or not. His reply was that only the chief instructor/chief of tech could make that happen. My response was simple: I won't get into his car; find him another instructor! But as I said before, as it turned out, his car would not start so the discussion became moot.

Pawling:"I don't think any instructor would get in a car that has a see-through wooden floor. I don't understand why one would even ask/demand to drive one."
You missed the point here. I didn't notice some of the serious flaws until I was actually in the car on the track. Like any other instructor, I tried giving a "final" tech before I got into the car, but if I hadn't driven the car, I would not have seen several of the most serious infractions. From looking into the car from the outside of the car, it was not detectable. If I had noticed any of these defects, I obviously would not have gotten into the car...at all, forget whether as a driver or a passenger, would you?
So, as I have said before, you as the instructor have the final say on whether the car is track (indeed, road worthy). I invoked my right not to subject myself or others to the consequences of an unsafe car. And by the way, this driver was not a novice at all.

 

Hard to believe, agio. But I guess it can happen. Just as it's also hard to believe that an instructor can abuse the option of driving a student's car and claim it as a right to do so, and I've known it to happen.

 

Paulting,
"Hard to believe, agio. But I guess it can happen. Just as it's also hard to believe that an instructor can abuse the option of driving a student's car and claim it as a right to do so, and I've known it to happen"
Well, believe what you will mate, it happened exactly as I reported. For the record, not one instructor that I know now or ever have known has ever abused a student's car and made an insane claim that "they(it) had a right to do so."
Any instructor who takes such a irrational and dangerous position, should be excused from further service.

 

Agio, not to put fire on this flame, but a while ago there was a poster here named Ghetto Racer who did exactly what Paulting describes. And then came here to brag about it!

 

I agree 1000%.

 

I'd suggest you do the PDE, it's a whole lot better than any DE from a students point of view. Plus you get top factory drivers as intructors in their cars, not yours. I'll never forget a fews yrs ago I had Dave Murry showing me how to trail brake at about 9/10, talk about an eye opener!

 

I think one should ask first what they are wanting to accomplish. If you want to push a Porsche a little and hang out with well known professionals in a kiss a$$ environment, then the PDE is a great way to go. If you want to take your own car and really learn how to drive, then DE is the way.

 

Gotta agree with Mitch here. Go do a PDE and have fun, but what about the rest of the year. Go run with Skippie or others as well, but for the buck and seat time, running with DE is second to none.
While I've said this (probably) too many times, the instructors at PCA (and other) events are hard working, dedicated and fairly knowledgable amatuers teaching amatuers.
But the end game is clear--safe, serious fun with your own car.

 

I just finished my first DE this previous weekend and I agree with Agio....riding in my car with my instructor in a faster group later in the day helped me tremendously...was a revelation for me...the "light" finally went on.

I guess I learn from watching or mimicing...