trackjunky

Well, what do you know, we just happened to have one of those drivers this year A winning S2 driver (mucho experience!) switched to a setup TS mid-way through the season this year. While he has done well in both cars, the TS has not shown to be 12% faster. In fact, I think his fastest laps are still in his S2

just throwing that out there [/QUOTE]

This may just make my point. Put this high caliber S2 driver in a NON-S TURBO 944 and see what happens. I'll bet you a nickel that he's slower. This is the point, the NON-S TURBO needs to have a competition adjustment. Allow the S2 Ring and Pinion or equalize HP/Weight with the Turbo S and the whining should stop. Take the excuses away.

P.S. The '86 turbo does not have anti-lock brakes either. Disadvantage?

Matt Marks

FWIW - the S2 guy switched because he wrote off the S2 at the glen - not for competitive reasons. If you ask him, he'll tell you that he went to the TS rather than rebuild or buy another S2 because he was tired of getting smoked by TS cars that had a huge speed advantage down the straights but held him up in the turns.

FWIW - Here would be my hot setup. Take an F turbo, and for 100 pounds penalty, do the following:

Brakes
Chip
Wide wheels (+ 2 inch)
Camber plates (no penalty for these)
Ring and Pinion

That would be a killer combination.

Amen brother. That's all anyone has ever asked. BTW -check out the discussion on HP limits on the 44cup board - there may be some additional help for non TS cars. Good discussion either way

Mike Buck

Agreed! But nobody has done that!

We are all knowingly driving around with less than optimal cars! Do we really have a right to complain?

Matt Marks

True enough

TD in DC

I'm disappointed that I am the sole SP2 entry in the Summit Point Club Race. Have I really intimidated all of the other n/a guys out there?

Cris Brady

That's it TD. It prayed on my mind all weekend at the NASA Nationals. So much so, that I balled up my car rather than suffer the utter humiliation of being spanked by you at the SP race....


right.

TD in DC

I knew that would draw you out.

It is still too bad that only you and I had signed up in the first place.

And you know, all this disrespect from my buddies is only going to make you feel worse when I do end up spanking you at the races. I am not the same driver I was even in February Thank God, but that still isn't saying too much.

It really is too bad you will not be making it. I was looking forward to it.

Cris Brady

Yeah, look at it this way, Its a win/win situation for everybody.

You, you're guaranteed a podium finish

And the I class drivers, if you beat them they can salvage their pride by saying "It wasn't a fair fight, you're a SP2 car". And if they beat you, they can say "See, we're better than the 44Cup drivers".

See, everybody wins!

comatb

"This is the point, the NON-S TURBO needs to have a competition adjustment. Allow the S2 Ring and Pinion or equalize HP/Weight with the Turbo S and the whining should stop. Take the excuses away."

"P.S. The '86 turbo does not have anti-lock brakes either. Disadvantage?"[/QUOTE]

Ok! Enough whining trackjunkie. First you list your Turbo as a PCA F class car, so you don't compete against the Turbo S, which is in E. You could if you wanted to by making all the previously listed Prepared modifications. That's your choice.

Now in Super Cup you would enjoy a 250 lb advantage over the Turbo S assuming both cars are both prepared to the stock OR prepared rules. I'm not so sure that this weight advantage isn't enough for your to be competitive.

I am assuming and you should be too, that the driver is equal as well as the level of preparation and maintanace of both cars. Only then can we be more certain of one car's competitiveness against another. Even then one track may favour one of these cars, but not necesarily at all track.

Wanting the most competitive car in multiple series and tracks if very difficult. Good luck in your quest. I'm leaning to a 944 Spec (PCA SP1) car as they are MORE the same and consequently more equal.

Nader Fotouhi

TD,

After seeing the pictures of the broken a-arms, no one in their right mind wants to be on the same track with a car you bring.

trackjunky

Ok! Enough whining trackjunkie. First you list your Turbo as a PCA F class car, so you don't compete against the Turbo S, which is in E. You could if you wanted to by making all the previously listed Prepared modifications. That's your choice.

Now in Super Cup you would enjoy a 250 lb advantage over the Turbo S assuming both cars are both prepared to the stock OR prepared rules. I'm not so sure that this weight advantage isn't enough for your to be competitive.

I am assuming and you should be too, that the driver is equal as well as the level of preparation and maintanace of both cars. Only then can we be more certain of one car's competitiveness against another. Even then one track may favour one of these cars, but not necesarily at all track.

Wanting the most competitive car in multiple series and tracks if very difficult. Good luck in your quest. I'm leaning to a 944 Spec (PCA SP1) car as they are MORE the same and consequently more equal.[/QUOTE]

URGHHH!!!!

Let me put this in the simplest terms possible:

944 Turbo '86 - '88 Prepared to PCA stock rules 13.63 hp/wt ratio (SC 944)
944 Turbo S '88-89 Prepared to PCA stock rules 13.00 hp/wt ratio (SC 944)

Now you can call me stupid, I did attend public schools, but with "everything else being equal" as you assume.........which car would you race with?

And yes, I don't race against the Turbo S in E because I would get slaughtered! I stay in F and take my beating from the Euro SC's and the 968's. I just prefer it that way.

And point of fact: The Turbo S in E weighs in at 100 lbs heavier(2998) than the regular 944 Turbo in F (2899), so in Super Cup the weight penalty is closer to 150 lbs not the 250 lbs. you state. 150 lbs heavier and 30+ more horsepower. Come on now! Even us public school graduates can tell that this makes a difference.

If these are truely equal cars as you surmize, then why not give them identical Hp/Weight ratio's? This is the main point here. I take exception to the "whining" comment. I'm asking for "parity", not a competitive exception.

comatb

Trackjunkie I certainly agree, I too would race the Turbo S as neither of us is stupid. So why would you run prepared? Don't you think that your car would be more competitive in F ? Every PCA class has a range of power to weight ratios. All cars are not equal in every class. It would be a perfect world if it were so, but it isn't. PCA doesn't have the time/desire/people or expertise to equalize every car in a class.....unfortunate but true at this time.

Another reality is that PCA enforcement of rules is, let us say lax. You might be fighting an uphill battle against cars that may be pushing the legality envelope. I wish you the best, and I do believe that a well prepared and driven 944T could/should be competitive at some tracks against other legal F cars. Your car looks to have all the "right" pieces to achieve this. PM me if you would like to discuss this further.

Bill Comat
PCA races this year at Sebring, Road Atlanta, Mid-Ohio, Watkins Glen, Mosport and registered for Daytona. All in 944 based cars.

944Cup

Think Bill does have it right, the diff is 250.

richard glickel.

Cris,

What am I missing here? I saw you at Summit Point earlier in the week with Schattenbaum ( I know you were there for just the first day). We didn't get to talk, but I waved "so long" as you were leaving the track monday nite.

So what the heck happened out at Mid-Ohio??

Cris Brady

I was doing the Schattenbaum day to test out my motor after rebuilding the top end in my garage before heading out to MO for the NASA Nationals. Was doing well, when in the Sat Qual Race I came up over the hill into ThunderValley. Somebody had dumped oil on the track just 1 foot off the line just over the crest. I hit the oil and spun, a second later somebody else spun in the oil and collected me, hit me in the front and rear. Seconds later another car clipped me. After a few seconds I tried to restart the car to get out of the way and a fire broke out in the engine compartment. Most likely my oil filter and lines got busted in the crash. I triggered my fire system and it put out the fire. Not much fire damage, but a fair amount of body damage from the impact. There's an incar video of all this for those who think if you just do DE you'll be okay. On the track, whether DE or Racing, things can go rapidly from good to worse in the space of one corner.

My incar video is on my video page: http://www.crisbrady.net/video.html

Even though in the video I say I'm hurt, I was just a bit excited and meant the car's hurt and I'm okay. Strange things come out of your mouth when you're under a bit of stress All the safety systems did exactly what they were supposed to do. All I needed was a couple of Ibuprofen and I was fine. The car, unfortunately, was not.