SP1,2,3 Class roll call
09-21-2006, 05:06 PM
#31
Burning Brakes
Not sure that I can reconcile the differences between being legal for PCA "F" class and competing in SP-3. A legal "F" class car might not be competitive in SP-3 without the permitted modifications that would render the car non-conforming for "F".
Is your concern that you can't get the car light enough without pulling the interior?
09-21-2006, 05:29 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Nader Fotouhi
I would primarily race 44SC because of the number of opportunities to race without having to travel long distances. Howver, I belive S2 has a big disadvantage in SP3 where it is classed with 951S.
Nader
Nader
The 944 S2 has won numerous events this year in 944 Super Cup in multiple Chapters, the Regional Championship in the SE Chapter and won the National Championship. The model is very competitve in SC. If an imbalance should ever occur per results to allow the 951S to dominate, expect a rules change to level the field.
DD
09-21-2006, 05:33 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by mjensen
For 2007 NASA is looking for a 944 cup directorfor the midwest region(I am considering!) which would be for supercup and cup. This would be SP2 and SP3 PCA cars. I am planning on a 944cup car/GTS1/SP2...
We are open to input for starting up a 944 Cup Chapter in the MidWest. A separate discussion is being started on the 944 Cup forum to this end. Any and all input welcome.
http://44cup.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=1715
Thanks
Getting back to the original issue of showing supprot for the SP classes in PCA, I would think a 944 Cup event at a PCA race, such as in the MidWest, would be a good start.
DD
09-21-2006, 06:11 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by 944Cup
The 944 S2 has won numerous events this year in 944 Super Cup in multiple Chapters, the Regional Championship in the SE Chapter and won the National Championship. The model is very competitve in SC. If an imbalance should ever occur per results to allow the 951S to dominate, expect a rules change to level the field.
DD
DD
IIRC, the races won by the NS in SC have typically been in the wet. I realize that skill is an important part of the equasion and I am running heavier than allowed and , but instructing someone in a 951S at VIR a couple of weeks ago really made the straight line speed differences very clear. Perhaps you should change the rules that only wet races count. Oh wait, I am too chicken to race in the wet.
09-21-2006, 10:26 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
FWIW - for Supercup/SP3 - as Nader mentions - other than wet races (5 this year by my count), the Turbo S has generally been in a league of its performance-wise. Over the last two years, (The first year that there are reasonable car counts to measure) The win rate for the TS is something on the order of 2:1 and the podium rate is something close to 3:1. The TS also received (?!?) a 50 lb weight break at the start of the 2005 season.
If you work out the HP/wt ratios - you'll get a good understanding of why all of the non TS cars are at a disadvantage of between 8 and 12 %.
Now that being said - S2's are very competitive at point and shoot tracks like CMP, VIR North, and Mid O where the turbos can't really stretch their legs. On longer circuits, the Turbo S is dominant based on its top speed advantage with the current weights.
For the record - I do have a vested interest here (I run as a 968), but the stats are pretty clear here.
If you work out the HP/wt ratios - you'll get a good understanding of why all of the non TS cars are at a disadvantage of between 8 and 12 %.
Now that being said - S2's are very competitive at point and shoot tracks like CMP, VIR North, and Mid O where the turbos can't really stretch their legs. On longer circuits, the Turbo S is dominant based on its top speed advantage with the current weights.
For the record - I do have a vested interest here (I run as a 968), but the stats are pretty clear here.
09-21-2006, 10:51 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Matt Marks
FWIW - for Supercup/SP3 - as Nader mentions - other than wet races (5 this year by my count), the Turbo S has generally been in a league of its performance-wise.
Originally Posted by Matt Marks
The win rate for the TS is something on the order of 2:1 and the podium rate is something close to 3:1. The TS also received (?!?) a 50 lb weight break at the start of the 2005 season.
DD
ps. And if you raced a TurboS this year in any of the four 944 Super Cup Chapters, you did not win a Regional Championship or the National Championship. Looks to me like the non Turbo S drivers need to do more celebrating and less whining.
Last edited by 944Cup; 09-21-2006 at 11:26 PM.
09-21-2006, 10:53 PM
#38
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I don't know about that Matt. I think a good comparison would be to run the same driver in both cars. That way we remove the driver from the speed variable.
Well, what do you know, we just happened to have one of those drivers this year
A winning S2 driver (mucho experience!) switched to a setup TS mid-way through the season this year. While he has done well in both cars, the TS has not shown to be 12% faster. In fact, I think his fastest laps are still in his S2
just throwing that out there
Well, what do you know, we just happened to have one of those drivers this year
A winning S2 driver (mucho experience!) switched to a setup TS mid-way through the season this year. While he has done well in both cars, the TS has not shown to be 12% faster. In fact, I think his fastest laps are still in his S2just throwing that out there
09-21-2006, 10:54 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Nader Fotouhi
instructing someone in a 951S at VIR a couple of weeks ago really made the straight line speed differences very clear.
DD
Last edited by 944Cup; 09-21-2006 at 11:27 PM.
09-21-2006, 11:32 PM
#41
Burning Brakes
I don't know about that Matt. I think a good comparison would be to run the same driver in both cars. That way we remove the driver from the speed variable.
DD/mike - can't dispute hp/wt ratios(they are what they are) - just what they mean. Good for everone to be informed, though.
I'll go back to my couch now and cook up more Turbo conspiracies
The champagne is good
09-22-2006, 10:04 AM
#43
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by 944Cup
But all our races have turns.
DD
DD
DD, the intent is not to start a campaign to whine about the SC rules. I did not buy my car to race. I just happen to fall in to it and consider the 44Cup/SC as a great place to race. You can look produce all the data about percentages, but I just made a tongue in cheek comment in another thread about how data can be used to make any point. My POV is that if I were to build a car for SC, I would choose a 951S. Its shear speed advantage on straight would overcome a great deal of my poor driving skills.
Nader
Nader
09-22-2006, 10:58 AM
#44
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Nader Fotouhi
DD, the intent is not to start a campaign to whine about the SC rules.
Nader
Nader
On a serious note, know that the Turbos under certain conditions and at certain tracks do have a straight line advantage. Will keep a vigilant eye on it. Based on 2006, do see the SC rules staying pretty much the same for next year.
DD
09-22-2006, 11:59 AM
#45
Burning Brakes
Nader - good to help me zing the turbo brigade ;-)
In all seriousness - the parity in the field is continuing to grow - and as DD noted the results are skewed in that some regions can have a majority of a particular model (or people who are driving better) which means that taking the mid-atlantic as an example may not be representative.
Matt
In all seriousness - the parity in the field is continuing to grow - and as DD noted the results are skewed in that some regions can have a majority of a particular model (or people who are driving better) which means that taking the mid-atlantic as an example may not be representative.
Matt