Alan C.

Bottom line the guy got in the passenger seat with a non professional driver on a race track in a car he knew full well was capable of high speeds. I've been offered rides in cars that I would have loved to have gone out in but I declined. The driver/car combo just didn't give me that warm feeling. On the ones I have gone out in had there been an incident I would not have gone after the driver. It's time the US population grows up and accepts their own actions. Or maybe I should just go after Sears for the wrench that slipped off the bolt I was working on last weekend and resulted in a busted finger. After all Sears is well aware that their wrenches can and do slip.

bobt993

Alan, don't go after Sears, go after the bolt manufacturer or better yet, Porsche. They imported the car and knew you would most likely buy a wrench from Snap-on or ....Sears, so there should be a warning label next to or on the bolt itself. Contact your lawyer, you have a very valid case. BTW I would expect you are typing slow due to the injury and I am sure you cannot work right now.

Geo

When you sign the waiver and get into a car and head out onto a race track you have assumed responsibility for what happened to you. Don't go after anybody else. It's your own @##@$% fault for getting in the car. If you don't like that, then don't play. **** happens on a race track and people die, even if it's not racing. If you can't accept that, try concours, it's a lot less dangerous.

Oh, and another thing.....

MOST cars exceed the capabilities of the vast majority of its potential buyers. Most people just don't even begin to try to explore the capabilities of their car. That part of the argument is just silly.

This whole line of thinking just gets my blood pressure up.

Alan C.

You are right Bob, I was typing slow. Also had to re-read several times as the pain killers may have afffected me in an adverse way. Might have another positive cash flow the drug comapny.

BrianKeithSmith

NOBODY WRECKED HIS LIFE - he did. Nobody made him go 100, 120, 140, 160 or however fast he was going. He had his foot to the floor, nobody else did. And I don't give a flip who was waving others onto the track, or how many they waved onto the track. I don't need to know their name, I don't need to know the club that was holding the event, or which racetrack it was at. It doesn't matter in the least.

The plaintiff's point is simply to get more money because he/she wants more money. I hope the jury sends 'em out the door packing....

Brian

1AS

Hi Brian.
If you start with a different perspective, the arguement may change. When you drive to a grocery store, you take a risk. But if a speeding truck blows a stop sign and kills your passenger, do you say, "Well, 45,000 Americans die in motor vehicle accidents every year, so you knew it was risky." Or, would you expect the truck driver to be prosecuted if he was negligent?

There are too many law suits in America, and personally I'm ticked by the cigarette ones, since that is an issue with no assumed safety factors. The middle easterners who won $33,000,000 for harrassment (derogatory ethnic terms) is another.

It's Cory's life that got wrecked, but I doubt he made the driver keep the throttle nailed. Nobody knows what the conversation was between the two, but there is an expectation that this particular CGT owner wanted to sell his car to this particular passenger who wasn't happy with his Lambo.
Even tho I don't like suits either, i suspect the discovery process will yield facts that we will be reluctant to accept.

I don't think people should die at DE's. If a guy ignores a flag and kills his passenger, he's at fault, not the passenger. When a guy drives over his head, flips three times and kills himself, I totally agree with you. This one seems more complicated. AS

Mike in Chi

1500 posts, Alexander!

Time to pay for a Rennlist membership.

Or didn't you read the waiver you agreed to before your first post.

Rick964

Yes Cory's life got wrecked, by his actions of climbing into a car he doesn't know, with a driver he may or may not have known and he may or may not have known the driver's history or skill level. He voluntarily got in that car to go out onto a racetrack, he either knew the risks or did not have the common sense required to know the risks. But the actions were his.

Unlike a drunk, speeding truck driver who runs a red light and kills someone there is no violation here, waivers were signed, risks were understood and decsions were made.

Reynard38

I have had a pretty serious "shunt" in a F2000 car at Barber. Result to the driver.... a bump on the knee. Yes I was lucky, but also the 6 point harness, bead seat and HANS certainly played a role. For me personally I won't track a car that is not similarly equipped. I know I can lie to myself I won't go 10/10ths) but the truth is I will.
The subject incedent is a tough call. Like most accidents it is a combination of multiple factors leading to an avoidable chain of events. I see this all the time in aviation. It's why we read the accident reports.
I don't want to mandate that you need all the safety equipment to DE or lap. I think that should b left up to the driver. But after this court case that decision may be made for us.
Oh, and I don't have a track car right now. Hopefully next year. That too is the nature of the flying business.

BrianKeithSmith

I don't see anything complicated about it... Sorry...

They signed the waiver. There are no waivers on the street, so its all fair game out there. 2 totally different scenarios...

Brian

SundayDriver

THAT is a great point. My commuter car is a Neon. How many drivers can handle that on a track?

JJayB

Exactly! California law is very strong on waivers. McClelland is a good plaintiff attorney and he will try to pick off the weak defendants or those with limited insurance and narrow his focus.
California Speedway and Porsche are the deep pockets that will resist in my opinion. California Speedway on the waive issue and Porsche on integrity of the product. Tough case to claim crash worthiness on a race track but it has been done.
I see Ferrari Club having to rely on it's waiver but its got some problems in the way it handled the event. HERE IS THE CRUX, does an event organizer's negligence negate the waiver? If the trial court says yes, this will clearly be appealed. Cases like this take a lot of unexpected turns. In many cases, as one of my law school professors said "injuries make liability"

Jimmy the fugitive

993tt 3.8 Andial aka Blackie
04' Cayenne Turbo
06' CLS 55
06' C55 daily driver

RJay

So I'm no lawyer, but back when I was in Grad school, I lived with two law students. Mostly uninteresting to me (and seemingly oftne to them as well)except that they'd occasionally speak about torts. The only thing thats stuck with me from those long ago conversations is the princincple of "What a reasonable person would expect."

What reasonable person doing a buck and a half at Fontana would not expect that there is a significant risk of serious injury or death under that circumstance? In an open top street car with street level safety gear. With an amatuer at the helm. With how much experience? In a virutally new car in which he couldn't have had much track time. Every one I know at work thinks I'm completely bonkers for tracking my car, and I suspect as they are reasonable people, they'd understand that there is significant risk in this situation.

I'm sorry for the loss of life, its tragic, but like any accident on track it takes a series of minor mistakes that combined all add up to a big one. To attempt to ascribe blame for any purpose other than understanding what, why and how this happened so that it can be prevented in future strikes me as rephrensible. Did the flagger intend to cause an accident? Did the driver of the Ferrari entering the track have the slightest idea that he was about to be involved in a fatal crash? Did the track create the play area to make the track more hazardous?

This stuff is typical lawyer rubbish. This lawsuit isn't about cruscading against those who would take advantage of the poor unsuspecting masses, its about lining pockets of those for whom fate has dealt a cruel blow in a tawdry attemot to make everything all better. Oh yeah, and collecting a tidy fee in the process.

BrianKeithSmith

Rjay:

You are the man! Well said!

Brian

ehall

No one forced the passenger to take the ride. He got in on his own, and, in my opinion, neither he, nor anyone else has a morally valid claim. As to the law...we need serious tort reform in this country.