double clutching
#16
Rennlist Member
FWIW, you can also do a little practice on the throttle blips and foot positioning when the car is stationary (i.e. in the driveway, or maybe an empty parking lot if you don't want the neighbors to wonder what you're doing revving your engine so much). Just leave it in neutral with the motor running, then you can get a sense of the effort needed for a certain throttle blip, as well as safely look at your foot position since you're not moving. The downside is that the brake pedal/effort will be higher than it would be if you were actually moving. This is certainly more of a beginner step, more to figure out the right positioning and feel, but thought I would throw it in.
#17
Race Director
Originally Posted by JCP911S
1) The ball of your right foot should be solidly on the righthand side of the brake pedal.
It feels awkward to turn your toe in and manipulate your ankle like you need to for proper heeling/toeing. But it's essential you start out right and not learn bad habits. Watch foot cams in pro races. Rarely will you see a driver not placing the entire ball of the foot solidly on the middle of the brake pedal. The ankle manipulation takes time to get comfortable with but it quite surely can be done and it even feels natural after a while.
#18
Originally Posted by Geo
I have to strongly disagree with this. The ball of your foot should be solidly on the middle of the brake pedal. Your number one priority in heel/toe is braking. Your number two priority in heel/toe is braking. Your number three priority in heel/toe...... Rev matching is somewhere way down the list. Missing your rev matching is not going to put you off the track or into a competitor unless you're really sloppy and/or perhaps select the wrong gear (which could upset the car even with rev matching). Missing the brake can be fatal.
You certainly have more experience than I do, but I disagree with you on this point. I brake with the ball of my foot. In order to brake strongly, all you have to do is ensure that the ball of your foot is on the pedal. If it is on the pedal, you can brake equally hard whether it is towards the left side of the pedal, centered, or on the right side of the pedal. I place the ball of my foot as far over to the right as possible, and it does make heel/toeing and rev-matching much easier.
As you start driving closer to the limit, and particularly where you are trail-braking, I personally think that rev-matching is crucial. Even when you select the right gear, failure to rev-match can be the straw that breaks the camel's back and it can certainly send you right off the track, or at least break the rear end loose and force you to take measures to gather the car rather than keep your momentum up through the rest of the turn. When you can rev-match properly, you can reach a whole new level of techniques.
Why should heel-toeing be awkward? Isn't it better (i.e., safer and faster) if it is easy and comfortable to rev match? As such, seems like a good idea to put your foot over to the right of the brake pedal as far as possible.
#19
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Originally Posted by Geo
It feels awkward to turn your toe in and manipulate your ankle like you need to for proper heeling/toeing.
#20
Originally Posted by Geo
I have to strongly disagree with this. The ball of your foot should be solidly on the middle of the brake pedal. Your number one priority in heel/toe is braking. Your number two priority in heel/toe is braking. Your number three priority in heel/toe...... Rev matching is somewhere way down the list. Missing your rev matching is not going to put you off the track or into a competitor unless you're really sloppy and/or perhaps select the wrong gear (which could upset the car even with rev matching). Missing the brake can be fatal.
It feels awkward to turn your toe in and manipulate your ankle like you need to for proper heeling/toeing. But it's essential you start out right and not learn bad habits. Watch foot cams in pro races. Rarely will you see a driver not placing the entire ball of the foot solidly on the middle of the brake pedal. The ankle manipulation takes time to get comfortable with but it quite surely can be done and it even feels natural after a while.
It feels awkward to turn your toe in and manipulate your ankle like you need to for proper heeling/toeing. But it's essential you start out right and not learn bad habits. Watch foot cams in pro races. Rarely will you see a driver not placing the entire ball of the foot solidly on the middle of the brake pedal. The ankle manipulation takes time to get comfortable with but it quite surely can be done and it even feels natural after a while.
Unless your brake pedal is made of cardboard, as long as you have the ball of your foot solidly on the pedal, you can brake just fine.
Rev matching is VERY critical to safely executing a turn... try going into Big Bend at LRP at speed and locking up the rear tires on a blown 5 to 3 downshift, and see whether it is still down on your list... you'l have plenty of time to think about it while waiting for the tow truck.
If you want to contort your leg all around, power to you... you can brake iwth your heel and blip the throtte with your left toe if you want... but trust me, you can execute an absolutely perfect H&T downshift with your foot competely vertical and comfortable... no need for circus tricks IMHO
#21
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Geo
Yep. Double clutching is a throwback. Not really necessary and Skippy is the only school I've heard of that teaches it still.
#22
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by TD in DC
I brake with the ball of my foot. In order to brake strongly, all you have to do is ensure that the ball of your foot is on the pedal. If it is on the pedal, you can brake equally hard whether it is towards the left side of the pedal, centered, or on the right side of the pedal. I place the ball of my foot as far over to the right as possible, and it does make heel/toeing and rev-matching much easier.
#23
Lifetime Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by JCP911S
Everybody is free to drive anyway they want.... whatever works for you
Unless your brake pedal is made of cardboard, as long as you have the ball of your foot solidly on the pedal, you can brake just fine.
Rev matching is VERY critical to safely executing a turn... try going into Big Bend at LRP at speed and locking up the rear tires on a blown 5 to 3 downshift, and see whether it is still down on your list... you'l have plenty of time to think about it while waiting for the tow truck.
If you want to contort your leg all around, power to you... you can brake iwth your heel and blip the throtte with your left toe if you want... but trust me, you can execute an absolutely perfect H&T downshift with your foot competely vertical and comfortable... no need for circus tricks IMHO
Unless your brake pedal is made of cardboard, as long as you have the ball of your foot solidly on the pedal, you can brake just fine.
Rev matching is VERY critical to safely executing a turn... try going into Big Bend at LRP at speed and locking up the rear tires on a blown 5 to 3 downshift, and see whether it is still down on your list... you'l have plenty of time to think about it while waiting for the tow truck.
If you want to contort your leg all around, power to you... you can brake iwth your heel and blip the throtte with your left toe if you want... but trust me, you can execute an absolutely perfect H&T downshift with your foot competely vertical and comfortable... no need for circus tricks IMHO
Funny thing is that my foot has only slipped off the brake pedal once. Mid Ohio School Honda where I was forced to twist that ankle, and even then could not really reach both pedals. I have never had an issue when doing side-to-side "H&T". What is even better though, is one foot per pedal (We dunt neeed no steeeekin cluuuutch).
#25
Race Director
Originally Posted by Phokaioglaukos
This is true, but just be CERTAIN that your foot does not slip off the brake pedal.
Rephrasing what I wrote before, you can get through corners without rev matching, but in some corners if you don't get your braking done you have the rest of your life to figure it out.
#26
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Larry Herman
Yeah Mark, it's a little tough to do on my bike also, but rev matching on downshifts is critical for smooth drivetrain re-engagement, and that can be done on anything. Personally, I like to double-clutch simply because I can, and I like the rhythm. Also, though it is unnecessary on racecars with light weight (or non-existent) flywheels, on the older street cars with a 30 lb spinning cast iron flywheel, and another 20 some pounds of crankshaft, your syncros will thank you.
Thanks.
#27
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I think that it varies by driver. Personally, I like to engage a lower gear just as soon as it becomes available, i.e. when the revs that the lower gear requires drop to around 6000, I'll do the downshift. It give me some engine braking, but more importantly gives me the most time AFTER the downshift to continue my braking and concentrate on my turn-in place and speed.
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
#28
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I agree it depends on the driver, the size of your feet and the pivot point of the accelerator. With big feet, you end up having little leverage using your heel on a floor mounted accelerator. I always prefer a hanging accelerator, though I don't know anyone that makes them anymore.
#29
Originally Posted by Larry Herman
I think that it varies by driver. Personally, I like to engage a lower gear just as soon as it becomes available, i.e. when the revs that the lower gear requires drop to around 6000, I'll do the downshift. It give me some engine braking, but more importantly gives me the most time AFTER the downshift to continue my braking and concentrate on my turn-in place and speed.
#30
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Originally Posted by Arrwin
Generally speaking, as far as rev matching goes, at work RPM is the ideal point for a smooth downshift or does it vary by car? I have a 993 if it helps.
If you are playing a game of See How Smooth I Can Be, then true matching takes real time and concentration. If you are talking at the track, Matching Revs is a misnomer. You need to do your work at a point where engine revs are higher than driveline revs. Give it a boot and git'er done. If you over rev, you'll lurch the driveline a bit. If you don't get revs high enough, you risk a rear lockup. Better to be too high than too low.