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Safety Devices Weld in Roll Cage for 944T

 
Old 04-04-2006, 12:16 PM
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Wormhole
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Default Safety Devices Weld in Roll Cage for 944T

Iím looking for a cage with more protection then a bolt in, but not as expensive as a full custom. The Safety Devices cage looks to be what I need. The price is right, the design looks to be solid, and from what I understand they are crash tested. http://www.stableenergies.com/prodin...umber=SD-P944W

Before I take the plunge Iíd like to hear your opinions.
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Old 04-04-2006, 12:42 PM
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APKhaos
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Before you make that decision, find a local car with that cage and sit in it.

Off the shelf cages tend to run the door bars in a straight line from the main hoop to the front upright. A well fabricated cage should have formed door bars that run slightly outside of the door frame, flush with the stock door panel. This gains alost three inches of clearance between you left side and the door bars.

I've seen stock cages where the drivers seating position was severely compromised by the closeness of the door bars, and where the risk of smashing an elbow in a side impact was very high.
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Old 04-04-2006, 03:08 PM
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John Brown
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I have a Safety Devices cage in one car and an OG cage in the other. Both have good and not-so-good points. Both can be welded in should you wish. Both are bolted in our particular case. If I ever do another car I may just do a custom cage as I don't really like any of the prefabs for reasons incuding Tony's comments.

The Safety Devices does have the best workmanship of the prefabs, IMHO. But I doubt that the prettier craftsmanship translates into stronger.

There is no valid reason to abhor bolts as a construction method. Properly sized and torqued bolts are as strong as needs to be.

This has been discussed before. Try a search. If you must pay someone to install a prefab then it ends up about the same cost as custom.
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Old 04-04-2006, 03:21 PM
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Tony, I'm going to try to find someone at the next event that has it, but I need to get something soon, the walls approach much faster these days : )

John, Do you have the bolt in or weld in cage. The weld in looks to be a much better design, the only threads Iíve seen talk about the bolt in ones. As for price, the cage is $1100 and Iím estimating no more then $1000 to have it welded. The custom cages I have seen and heard about were more then double that.
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Old 04-04-2006, 04:54 PM
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Nader Fotouhi
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Do you plan to race or DE? Among the Club Racing sanctioning bodies, only PCA club racing rules allow a SD cage without adding an additional diagnol piece, because the diagnol piece that comes with the cage is considered outside the plane of the main hoop (I hope I am saying this right). I am sure John can explain better.

I have a bolt in SD cage and just went through the modification to meet NASA's rule. I like the SD cage because it fits nice. I am with John in that if you use the proper type of bolt, a bolt in cage is probably just fine. Another nice thing about bolt-in is that it can take the cage out, if needed.

You can always make modifications to a pre-fab cage such as welding a NASCAR type door bar instead of using the door bar that comes with the cage. This is still cheaper than custom made. Just make sure that you use the correct tubing size.
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Old 04-04-2006, 05:06 PM
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M758
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Originally Posted by Wormhole
the cage is $1100 and Iím estimating no more then $1000 to have it welded. The custom cages I have seen and heard about were more then double that.
I had a basic custom cage welded in my 944 for 2k. It is a very nice well designed and built cage. Gives me plenty of room over any prefab one. Of course it does not have all the extra stiffeners and things, but prefab ones don't either.
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Old 04-04-2006, 07:32 PM
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Cory M
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I think if you look around you'll be able to find someone who can build you a custom cage for the $2100 you're prepared to spend on the Safety Devices cage and install. At least I know I could out here and I can't imagine it's that much more expensive on the east coast.
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Old 04-04-2006, 08:47 PM
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Matt Marks
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The modification that Nader references is refers to the Safety Devices diagaonal brace for the main hoop runs diagonally back to the cage's rear mount point. For NASA, the diagonal brace must run from the top of top of the main hoop diagonally to the base of the main hoop.

Read the rulebooks at the NASA, PCA, and SCCA sites - they go into great detail including pictures and diagrams of cage designs for each of the organizations. Also, consider tubing material and thickness as there is some minor differences based on car weight and material (chromoly vs. steel).

If you're going to spend the time and money on the cage, make sure that you do your homework and get one that allows future owners of the car to run with as many organizations as possible, as this is a permanent mod and will have (in addition to safety) an impact on the car's resale value.

Also note that you may end up having to buy a windshield as many installations require the removal of the windshield to get the front hoop in. 944 windshields don't "uninstall" that well, so factor that in.

I got the full custom cage done for about $3k, but that included having the shop do the full prep of removing and re-installing the interior. That way, I got the cage I wanted the first time built to my specs.

Ditto what APKhaos said - make sure you check out other 944s with cages so you can get a feel for what the positives and negatives of each design is. Take some pics, that way you can take them to a custom builder to discuss pricing - Ithink you'll see that when you factor everything in - the cost difference is negligible unless you can do your own welding.
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Old 04-04-2006, 10:00 PM
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I have seen the bolt-in/weld-in Safety Devices cage in a few 944s I like it a lot. For the casual racer it is more than enough. Of course the weld-in kit is far more elaborate but it will take a lot of work to fit in it properly. If you decide to go that route choose the shop carefully. I have also seen many so called "custom" cages that I thought were less than impresive. In my car I have a welded Autopower reenforced with a few extra tubes and I'm pretty happy with it. My first goal is safety but I'm also trying to stay as light a possible in order to be (somewhat) competitive in my class. Another thing to consider, the retailer, Stable Energies, is a class act!
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Old 04-05-2006, 12:14 PM
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Thanks for the feedback guys..
Iíll most likely club race it in a year or two. I know the cage is already PCA approved. Iím not understanding exactly the additional bar that is needed for NASA, I checked the website and couldnít find any details. Here is a pick of the cage, maybe someone can draw up what is needed. I guess I can always add the bar at a later date.



I thought about getting a cheap custom cage, but I question if itís any better or possibly worse then a prefab that is tested. I guess it all depends on how reputable the builder is.
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Old 04-05-2006, 01:05 PM
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My technical ability does not reach the level requied to draw on the picture. However, I copied the relevant section of the NASA"s Competition Rules about the "diagnal brace" below.

I do not know about the Welded SD cage. However, the "other end of the diagnol brace" in a bolt-in SD cage did not meet the attachment requirments given below from the main hoop to the passenger floormounting plate. It only goes to half way down.

If you are get a SD cage, my suggestion would be to have Bob install it at the shop and he knows how to make the cage SCCA/NASA compliant.

15.6.7 Diagonal Brace
At least one (1) diagonal brace shall be used in the same plane as the main hoop. One end of the diagonal brace shall attach to the corner, or horizontal part, of the main hoop above the driverís head, within twelve (12) inches of the driverís-side corner. The other end of the diagonal brace shall attach to the mounting plate (or to the main hoop as close to the mounting plate as practically possible) diagonally opposed to the driverís head (passenger floor).
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Old 04-05-2006, 02:11 PM
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That picture doesn't look quite like my SD bolt-in cage, but it appears to be lacking the proper diagonal to make it NASA/SCCA compliant.

I had my cage modified after it was installed in the car (simply welded in the additional bar) for ~$100. The diagonal, which attaches to the main hoop just above your head, goes to a rearward mounting point as it's lower terminus. This is OK for PCA but not NASA/SCCA. They dictate that this diagonal brace be in the same plane as the main hoop, so it has to go from the top corner of the hoop to the hoop's bottom corner on the opposite side (not in a rearward direction).

I modified the picture with where the new bar would have to be placed to be NASA/SCCA compliant.
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Old 04-05-2006, 02:45 PM
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Ah, I see, thanks for pic. Iím no engineer on cages, but the extra bracing would appear to be a waste of metal on this cage.

BTW. The SD bolt-in cage looks to be vastly different then the SD weld-in cage. The stable engineering website shows a pic of the two, the one I have posted is the weld-in one.
Thanks again
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Old 04-05-2006, 08:54 PM
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Matt Marks
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This may be the 911 cage?
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Old 04-06-2006, 04:07 PM
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John Brown
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To what does the shoulder harness attach?
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