lawjdc

Please explain your comment or post some threads where this issue is discussed. I am on a short list for the 997 GT3 and plan on using it for DE events, in addition to street. That's what the car is made for, according to Porsche. 6 point belts/harnesses are required for DE. I've heard that these should not be used with stock seats. Should I forget ordering any seat upgrades and go straight to a race seat instead?

Thanks for your help in advance. It would be helpful to have a summary of the available information, rather than trying to piece it together from all the differing opinions.

bruinbro

What seats does a 997 GT3 come with? Aren't they "GT3" seats, in which case you're good to go?

As far as explaining my seatbelt comment, there are several H&N restraint threads in this forum that talk about this in great gory detail. My summary explanation on another board is as follows:

Basically, the stock belts are designed to decellerate your body by stretching, thus lessening the peak decelleration. In doing so, your whole body, including your head, is allowed to move forward (in a frontal crash) pretty much as a single entity. This means that by the time your upper body has stopped moving the difference in speed and acceleration between your upper body and head is such that the stresses on your neck are within what your neck can withstand to hold onyo your head. Competition belts, on the other hand, don't stretch nearly as much and tend to keep your upper body from moving very much. This means that the difference in speed and acceleration between your head (which is unrestrained) and your upper body is much greater, and depending upon the severity of the crash creating stresses which exceed the capability of your neck to hold on to your head. Your head then separates from your neck and you become dead (or at best a zombie). This is exactly what happened to Dale Ernhardt. The whole reason for head and neck restraint devices (HANS, Issac, Hutchens, etc.)is to prevent this from happening; i.e. to keep your head from moving just as your upper body is prevented from moving. This is why it is VERY dangerous to use competition belts without a H&N restraint.

Again, I would suggest searching this forum for H&N restraint discussions as they are much more detailed and precise. BTW, I haven't stayed in a Holiday Inn in quite a while...

Bro

M758

I disagree with this statement greatly. I fully understand the issue about H&N restraints, but don't agree that competition belts are "very dangious" without them. I will agree that it is safer to use a H&N, but there have been many racers driving for many years using 5 and 6 point harnesses without H&N restraints and have been fine in many many nasty wrecks.

I think it is false to make it appear that a harness is "unsafe" without a H&N device.

I have HANS device and have been wearing for the last 8 track days. I will not drive my car in a track day without it. That does not mean however that I believe I was doing something "very dangerious" by not using it. I actually believe that a proper harness set-up including seat, and roll bar to be a far safer set-up than stock belts even without and head & neck restraints. I feel that in the fast majority of possible incidents the competition harness will safe you much more than stock belts. However to be even safer adding a well designed H&N is great addition.

bruinbro

It's all about how you define "dangerous". For me, danger equates to the possibility of being in a frontal crash where the forces involved will cause severe neck injury or death. Many street accidents are of exactly this nature, hence I let my comments stand. On the track, there are probably less frontal crash accidents as a percentage of the whole, but for the same reasons you won't go out on the track without your HANS, I consider driving on the track without one very dangerous. For me it's not about the probability, but the severity of the consequences.

Bro

M758

Well I still feel more comfortable on track with comp harness and no hans that with just a 3 point belt.

Ok = 3pt belt
better = comp harness (properly mounted with seat, & roll bar) no HANS
best = Comp harness & HANS or ISAAC (I am not a big fan of any of the other H&N restraints out there)

bruinbro

Should modify your list for street vs track (I would say AX = street)

Street:
OK = stock seats, stock belts
better = stock seats, stock belts, roll bar
even better = stock seats, stock belts, roll cage
best = competition seat, stock belts, roll cage

Track:
OK = stock seats, stock belts, roll bar, helmet
better = competition seats, stock belts, roll bar, helmet
better yet = competition seats, stock belts, roll cage, helmet
best = competiition seats, competition belts, roll cage, helmet, H&N device

Bro

M758

I agree with above. When I autocross my 944 I don't use the HANS. I feel the risks are low, but the lack of movement with one really hinders the cone dodging process. The only thing is I don't like a roll CAGE on a street driven car.

I fear unhelmeted contact to the forward bars as being very bad.

Roll bar is a better compromise IMHO if one is going to be doing alot of street driving in the car.

speedread

The Arai has "hidden" insert areas for the earpieces of your glasses. It works very well. I leave my perscription sunglasses in my helmet at the track. Ok, so it doesn't matter for DE, but I like it.

lawjdc

Bro: Thanks for your summary. The order guides for the 997 GT3 are not out yet, at least in the US, so no one is absolutely sure what specific types of seats will be available. I doubt that the Carrera GT type seats will be an option, although I probably will end up installing those after taking delivery. I am all in favor of being as safe as possible, and your explanation is helpful.

Thanks also to Joe @ M758 for your comments.