Larry Herman

Actually, Montoya was faster than Kimi in only a handful of races in 2005, the first 3 being the weakest of the season for Kimi. After that Kimi was gone. He reeled off a string of victories or DNFs, and Montoya never really was on his pace, again except for one or 2 more races. If you count the victories turned mechanical DNFs while leading, he would have been champion. I guess that I am a Raikkonen fan, and I really don't see his weaknesses.

MHC2S

What are you talking about GEO???
Lets go back to 1993 with McLaren. The team Aryton Senna and Michael Andretti. Michael left McLaren after the 1993 Italain GP. At the very next race the Portuguese GP Mika steps in and outqualifies his teammate(Senna) with a 3rd on the grid position behind the dominante Williams of Hill and Prost. Andretti never did that!!! At the next race Japanse GP Mika qualifies 3rd and finishes 3rd. I know you don't care for him, but come on he wasn't all that bad!!!

A.Wayne

well larry Montoya did miss a few races in the beginning of the season recovering from his "accident " but he did show Kimi the way in the last few races , as well as his comments in Brazil when asked if he would AGAIN move over for Kimi , he said no and went out and put a stamp on it .

Montoya is very much the spanish " Mansel " i can tell from the look on Ron Dennis's face after montoya's win at Monza , that the team thinks highly of both drivers.
Losing Kimi and picking up Alonso is , well , no lost to Mcclaren as they will still have a super team. On paper McClaren should be dominating with their current driver lineup as it is the strongest driver pairing in the paddock. Montoya makes mistakes , Kimi seems to use the car up , most would say bad luck , yeah , i agree somewhat, but his style still uses the car and tires up, more so than others. Now with tire stops allowed , both he and Schumacher will benifit from this.

A.Wayne

Well i will be here tommrw Morning .
Cheers !

Flying Finn

You're right, what do Senna, Schumacher, Lauda etc. know?!

Well OK, he's an exeption!

Oh yea!

He raced twice as a guest driver in Supercup series and won both races...

Porsche people who were servicing/setting up those cars said they had never seen anyone drive that good those cars. Never.
There has been some serious talent in those cars but they said he was in class of his own.



You're right though, I can honestly say in some way it's in my, eh sorry, our blood.

Some of our achievemnts: 13 World Rally Championships titles (13 out of 26 and even more if you count the titles when they didn't call it World Rally Championship), 3 Formula 1 championship titles, are the only nation to ever to have F1 & WRC championship titles in same year, and did it twice in a row (Tommi Makinen & Mika Hakkinen), have 10+ World Enduro Championships, Enduro team championship, few Motocross world championships, couple Road Racing championship (wonder where Jarno Trulli got his first name?), at least couple Le Mans titles, wins in Sebring (also with Porsche!) etc...

Not too shabby from a Country of 5 Million people?

38D

So when are you coming to a PCA club race so we can see all this Finnish talent! Get that thing setup for D and come on out!

M758

Here is my take

Montoya = Lots of raw talent, but has never sharpened it to point of consistant performance. Maybe he lacks the drive to sharpen his skills and mind set. Need fast "seat of the pants" driver. He is pretty good, but will never be better than this.

Hakkanin = Solid & Strong driver. Not wildly Talented, but certain very good. When given a very strong machine (probably the best of the times) he was able to beat the best with it. Hey this may
not sound like much, but F1 is part racer and machine.

Schumi = The best at a changing the sport of F1. Really I believe Schumacher's style prevents someone like Montoya form doing well. Schumi is all testing/prep and team building. At Ferrari he took a team in chaos and built a winner. Sure he had help, but the driver is key that holds it all together. I don't believe that Ferrari would have won anything without Schumi as the driver and leader. His driving skills are high and his team building is higher. He is prototype for the next generation of racing drivers.

Alonso = Strong and solid. Is he a Hakkinen? or Schumi? Time will tell

Kimi = Fast, very fast, but plagued with bad luck. Unless his luck turns around he will never win a championship. Now how much of his bad luck is his own? That is unclear. I don't believe he has peaked yet.

Button = Solid driver and certainly someone would want on their teams. Can he win it all? Maybe he will need top car to do it.

Rosberg = Very very interesting. Potentaily he can be better than all the above. Apparently he is quite smart, brave and talented. Combine them and you have one hell of a driver. Too soon to know for sure, but it will be interesting to watch him grow. Some young guys are fast, but wild. Some are just slow. Rosberg was fast, and very poised for his age. Took some risks on the passes, but handled them very well. As race driver you need to take risks, but they must made the right time to be most effective. Plus if he really is as smart as they say may be he do what Schumi has done and be able to build a very effective team around him. Like I said though time will tell.

Larry Herman

You and I are definitely thinking alike. The single tire format certainly did affect some drivers more than others, Kimi & Michael like you mentioned. Seems like Alonso has no problems either way.

Geo

Indeed he did out qualify Senna. He did not finish 3rd though. He crashed. Pretty much the same as Andretti.

The following race he did finish third. Same as Andretti did in his final race. He then backed that up with another 3rd. Something Andretti didn't have the opportunity to do.

I don't dislike Mika. I don't revere him as some do. I absolutely don't speak of him in the same paragraph as Senna, Prost, Schumacher (ick), and a few others. Some here have taken that to mean I dislike him and think he's a hack. Look, Mika Hakkinen and Mika Salo left nothing to choose from in their British F3 battle. What is the difference between them in F1? I say it's the McLaren and Hakkinen's first two gifted wins.

Often there is a very slim line that divides the successful from the less than successful in F1. It often comes down to luck or other factors. I simply think the gift of those two wins is what made the difference for Hakkinen. Sure it's easy to say after he won two world championships that "Oh, what a great driver he was" but IMHO, Hakkinen isn't in the same league as a Senna, Prost, or Schumacher who come to a team and bring the level of the team up. I think it's very possible had Coulthard won those two races he gifted to Hakkinen, Mika might not have ever found the key to winning. Lots of exceptional drivers never find it. To is credit IMHO regardless of how he over came it, once he did he took it and ran with it. Hacks don't become world champions. But not all world champions go down as the truly great ones.

Geo

I agree. IMHO if Montoya would have the work ethic of Schumacher, he would be destined to be world champion. He doesn't seem to have that work ethic and doesn't seem to be developing it, so I doubt he'll ever be world champion.

I agree. However, for explaining some of my reasons that others (especially other Finns) don't agree with, I am vilified.

I agree generally. I think he's dirty and gets away with it. His punishment for crashing into JV was a joke. He should have received the same punishment for crashing into Hill. He'd have one less championship, for sure. If his team were given the "Draconian" punishment they deserved (the Draconian quote was from the FIA regarding the infraction before Scummie's team was caught), he might have had one less (can't remember the year for that - was it the same year he crashed Hill or JV?). Much as I very much dislike Schumacher, I sincerely respect his talent and work ethic (but not his personal ethics).

I agree. I think he's more Hakkinen than Schumacher.

I agree 100%. It will be interesting to see what happens to him if he does leave McLaren for Ferrari - especially if MS has resigned with Ferrari as is rumored. Actually if MS leaves it will be interesting as well to see if he can really lead the team like MS does.

I think Button would have to win a world championship to be on a team principle's A list because of his contractual BS the last couple of years. He simply MUST perform in place AND deliver the world championship or be oh so close.

OMG this kid certainly seems to be the real deal. If he can keep delivering like he did in Bahrain he will be on every team principle's A list. Too soon to tell, but he's sure got everybody talking. BTW, regarding fast, but wild, his father was fast AND wild (to an extent). Truly amazing.

Rich Sandor

This is true. JV is a world champ, and look at what a dead duck he is now. (sorry bud)

Geo

Don't think I disagree! People have read a lot into what I've written. JV made a stupid choice to go to BAR. He needs to contend for the world championship to keep his seat. I think he still has it in him, but he's getting old and he'll need to find that fire fast or retire.

He probably could have won another world championship if he hadn't been stupid.

Larry Herman

Funny how there has been a significant number of drivers and World Champs that have done exactly that. Emmo could have won more than 2 if he had stayed with Lotus, or any other front running team. Then again, a lot of people thought it was stupid for Michael to leave Benetton and go to Ferrari. Ahh, the wisdom of 20/20 hindsight!

mitch236

Not trying to stir things up but Mika didn't have his way with DTM last year.

Rich Sandor

True, but then Mika retired from F1 for a reason. His fire burnt out when his son was born.