smlporsche

Speaking of new talent lets not forget Haivi Kovalenen (sp?) who is a test driver for Renault this year. I think he will move into Alonso's seat next year.
I think this will be one of the best year's in F1 in quite a while...

Flying Finn

Ditto that! He is very good and should be driving for Renault instead of Fisi already.

BTW, it's Heikki Kovalainen.

Dayum, next year us Finns will have 2.5 (Nico is half Finn, half German) Finns in F1!

hacker-pschorr

Winning 3 races, 2 pole positions, and finishing 4th for the year is pretty darn good, even by F1 standards.

Lothar

George,

Do your home work. Hakkinen did not win his first race in Melbourne in 1998, when DC moved over to honor the pre-race arrangement. His first win came at Jerez the year before, and if anyone gifted that win to him, it was Villeneuve.

By the way, you are talking about the guy who went from McLaren test driver to race driver when Michael Andretti left McLaren in 1993. Do you remember how Hakkinen kicked off his race career with McLaren? He out-qualified none other than: Ayrton Senna!

Hakkinen did a lot with some perfectly horrible McLarens from 1993 to 1996. Toward the end of '97 McLaren finally produced cars that were competitive with the likes of Williams and Ferrari. So when Hakkinen and Coulthard finally had the cars to compete, it was Hakkinen the said little and let his driving do the talking.

To say that Hakkinen might have been like Alesi had Coulthard not gifted a race to him is just plain stupid.

I like both Hakkinen and Coulthard. But your trying to prop up Couthard with a bunch of "what might have beens" at the expense of a two-time World Champion is pathetic and unneccesary.

A.Wayne

Lothar , i'm with you on this one .
Yes coulthard did gift hakkinen a win but it was not his first win , that was courtesy of Mr villenueve the Day Scumacher tried to take him out to win the championship. Comparing Mika to Andretti , is an insult as they are at complete different levels , andretti problem was not speed , just had as much sense as a rock and could not race , which is Mika's best asset , he is a better racer , don't ask me ask Scumacher on all the passes that where made on him . David had his chance and will be rememebered as a good number 2.

But ask yourself this one , WHAT IF MIKA HAD SCUMACHER'S CONTRACT AND DAVID COULD NOT RACE HIM , how many more WC would he have won ?

A.Wayne

I will take you on that one larry , button would have been left behind if Rubins had not have any gear box issues, FIsi has been done for over 5 yrs , i'm not sure why he is still there. Yes there is a bunch of young' uns that will , for me put the sport back to it's talented ways of yore.

Lothar

Quote by George: "DC walked onto the team and dominated Mika until he gifted Mika his first win."

George,

What kind of BS are you trying to spew.

Coulthard and Hakkinen became teammates for the 1996 season.
In the '96 season, Hakkinen outscored Coulthard in points 31 to 18.
Hakkinen scored points in 11 races to DC's 6.
Hakkinen was on the podium 4 times to Coulthard's 2
Mika ended the season 5th and DC 7th

In 1997 Coulthard outscored Hakkinen 36 to 31.
Coulthard won two races to Mika's one
They were each on the podium 4 times.
Mika scored points in 8 races to DC's 6
DC ended the season tied for 3rd, Mika 5th

When did DC ever "dominate" Hakkinen as his teammate? That's just plain BS. Did you make that crap up yourself?

A.Wayne

Nor Scumacher contract. Look Mika was a better racer than Michael , Scumacher the more complete package, as stated above.but remember when Mika was a 2 time WC , so was Scumacher. They both where 2 time WC , at the same time .

Montoya is the present Nigel Mansell , all ***** no sense, but what the F--K , his drive at monza last year , c'mon or spa where he slowed to let kimi by , or brazil where he blasted Kimi's ***. Yes Montoya need's to deliver , as it is now, Connie is the only one delivering , I have followed this sport for 30 yrs and Montoya's career from the beginning ( Barber Series , F3000 , cart etc ) and in the last couple years only now disappointed, because he has shown his weakness in the brain. Kimi is a more complete package , will win more championships , but in an all out fight when all is good , i still believe Spanish Mansell will beat him , i have just come to reconize his weakness. Now the complete deal of course ALONSO , this is the complete package and is WC deserving x 2, this a fantastic time in F1 where Scumacher is retiring and we get back to racing AGAIN ! WOW !
and ohh yes , Montoya need's to deliver against Kimi this year in full or he will be ron's no 2. but i suspect it will be that way anyway as Alonso will be at Mc Claren as a 2 time WC

Lothar

George,

The only brain-fart I see is yours for trying to re-write history because you don't like Hakkinen.

Some of us have good memories and what we don't remember, we can look up pretty damned fast. So if you don't like what happened, or if you just don't know what happened, please don't make stuff up unless you really feel the need to display your ignorance.

pole position

I disagree with your statement that Hakkinnen beat Schumacher two times straight up, on paper yes, but in reality without the broken leg in 99 I firmly believe Schumacher would have won the championship, remember Irvine almost took Mika and everybody knows that Irvine and Schumacher are not in the same league. However it is speculation and Hakkinen was a worthy champion.

hacker-pschorr

If Zsolt Baumgartner would have been with a better team, he would have out performed everybody the past few years.

Larry Herman

I never disputed that Montoya wasn't fast, he just does not have all the tools to sustain a winning effort in F1. It is apparent that as long as there is sufficient competition it will take a "complete driver" to win an F1 championship. With the exception of Senna, who was just so blisteringly fast, all of the great drivers of the last several decades were arguably not the absolute fastest of their era, but were certainly quick enough and possesed every trait that we are talking about here. I'll wager that Mika was faster than Schumie straight up, and that Kimi is faster than Alonso, but look who has won championships against whom. Unfortunately for Kimi, luck is also part of the equation.

And I'll take that wager, you can have Barrichello, and I'll take Button. See you at the end of the season.

A.Wayne

Ok wager on!

1. that Barichello will show up button
2. I agree that Mika is a better racer than Michael , but not as complete a package
3. Kimi faster than Alonso , I don't think so and Alonso is more complete
4. Alonso will be A 2 TIME W/C AT YEARS END .
I will also share this , with button being at bar now 3 yrs and Barrichello coming into what is for him a new situatiion , button at this part of the season should be a head , he is not , The year end results will be interesting .

Geo

I have a good memory as well. I can also do research. From GrandPrix.com regarding the European GP:

"And so it was that Mika Hakkinen won his first Grand Prix. Thanks to Jacques Villeneuve and in no small part to David Coulthard as well, because David had let Mika get ahead with three laps to go - probably on orders from the pits. The team did not bother to give details of this but David was not bubbling with joy after the event... Hakkinen himself was speechless and made little sense after the race."

As for the points, I don't remember if winning was 9 or 10 points in 97, but the minimum swing in points for the two for the season would have been 6 or as much as 8. Mika had been on the team for some time and couldn't "break his duck" (anybody know the origin of that phrase?), yet DC came in and won twice before giving a win to Hakkinen.


And from Australian in 98:

"In the middle of the race there was a communication problem between McLaren engineers and Hakkinen and the Finn suddenly appeared in the pitlane, thinking he had been called in. He was waved through but by then Coulthard was in the lead. In the closing laps Coulthard was ordered to move over and allow Hakkinen to win. The two had lapped the whole field."

Again Coulthard gave Hakkenin a win.

I remember when Hakkinen took over from Andretti and don't remember him doing anything particularly better than Andretti. And remember, Hakkinen had been driving F1 cars for a while and Andretti was just coming to terms with them, and at a time when testing was sudden deeply curtailed.

I just don't think Hakkinen is near what some people make him out to be. I truly wonder if he would have developed into a world champion w/o Coulthard's help. Getting close and not breaking through can lead many a driver to frustration in their career. Call me stupid if you like, but as I've posted above, Hakkinen needed Coulthard's help to break onto the top step of the podium. Further I wonder what would have happened if Coulthard were more hard nosed (such as Schumacher) and took those wins for himself. Many have said Coulthard is too nice a teammate.

500

Hakkinen was unstoppable earlier that year in England before his car let go. In my mind there was no doubt that he had arrived at that point. I think he had already broke through mentally even before Jerez. Just my opinion though.

Jerez was a joke race though. Schumi pulling that reprehensible stunt plus the Williams/McLaren collusion during the day was a bad day for F1.