RedlineMan

Hey all;

Along with the cage project comes this phase of my seat maturation. This is a Kirkey Road Race Deluxe. They are a very well made seat, quite comfortable, and arguably the best aluminum standard "wing seat" available.

However, they do not necessarily have all the bases covered. The first mods (last year) were to make it a 10 degree seat so as to provide more butt retention. The standard 20 degree layout just did not hold me in well enough at all, and tipped me way too far back to boot. I sliced out a wedge on each side, drew it together, and rewelded the sides to make it more upright.

This year, I have decided to make it a full containment seat. I have a fair amount of upper body mass, and I wanted the REAL support of shoulder FENCES instead of the moderate support of wings.



Step 1 - I trimmed off the outer edge bead and recontoured the wings to test angles, positioning, and spacing. Then I sectioned out the wings along the weld seams.



Here is the new FENCE clamped in place. It is made of the same 5052 alloy as the seat, but is 3/16ths thick instead of the much thinner .080 of the previous wing.



Here are the new fences all welded in place. I will also be adding a reinforcement channel (3" wide by 5/8" high) that will be welded all the way across the back of the seat at fence height to stiffen the entire structure.

And I'm also making a new head halo assembly. We just got 10" of snow today, and it's still coming. Looks like I've got time.

More to come.

A930Rocket

I wish I had your talent and tools. I have a Butler Built rib crusher that I modified years ago, by cutting back the rib portion, making it more like a drag race seat, then added the shoulder supports and head halos. I'd like to beef them up by welding in more bracing, as you are going to do. They make a big difference in my comfort level.

fatbillybob

After seeing my ultrashield RRSS I think it is pretty easy to make the entire seat. Redlineman, what do you think about rigging up shoulder fences and a head halo that can be slid in and "pinned" into a kirky intermediate for guys running dual use cars? I think that could be a growth industry for you. So you drive the car to the track and then you slid in the fence and halo and you are set for the track. I think push-in locks or even small seatbelt clips like on window nets could be used.

analogmike

I cut back the ribs on my Kirkey Deluxe too, they were ridiculous and my elbows would hit them, especially autocrossing. I also had to bend the head rest back SUBSTANTIALLY, it was at a ridiculous angle, no room for a helmet. Maybe the new road racing seat would have been better but was not available back in '98 when I got my seat.

A.Wayne

Yeah , OK , But the real question is , Why do you prefer these type of seats over a good composite seat, Pros ,. cons .

macnewma

Bump Wayne's question. I am very interested in this as well. I find it intriguing that most of the dirt track, NASCAR and drag racers use aluminum seats and most road course sports cars use composites. I understand containment, but both material types offer that.

RedlineMan

Interesting idea;

First, there is nothing easy about these things. When you get into it, there is a lot of pretty sophiticated fabrication going on. Lots of angles and bends and, and, and... It takes some equipment to do this! Ever see a shear that can cut 3/16" material? Bigger than your car!

The modular idea is interesting. Kirkey's new containment seat might lend itself to that. Lots of work to make it fly though, I'm thinkin.

RedlineMan

Hey Mike;

You're right, it is hard to get a perfect fit. That's why I recommend Ultrashield to folks. If you get the RR Super Seat, for $1100, custom spec'ing and build is included in the price.

RedlineMan

Different mentalities;

Plastic is for putting leftovers in. Metal is something you can mold, form, taste. You can't easily custom build a proper composite seat, but you can tailor metal to any need you might find. Alloy seats offer infinite customization. The home builder didn't have access to composite technology, but he had a TIG and some hammers... like me. I imagine Butler, Kirkey, and Ultrashield might have started in someones garage too.


Plastic seat maufacturers are way behind the curve in terms of containment as far as I'm concerned. I see only one seat - the Racetech Viper - that comes any where near the containment of the alloy seats, and it pales by comparison in my estimation (I've only seen pictures). They also have not figured out how to do belt holes to fit varying size occupants. Need different holes in your alloy seat? Cut'em! Wore out your seat cover? Pop it off and snap on a new one for a $100 or so.

The only downside to alloy is memory. It may bend instead of springing back. They have to be pretty well reinforced to have the stiffness of some of the better plastic seats. Therefore, they tend to be a little heavier.

macnewma

Is there any downside to the metal aside from potentially more weight? I still don't understand why Grand-am, ALMS, and touring cars don't seem to use metal seats. I don't think most of those use custom molded shells like F1 cars...or maybe they do. Or maybe some are using aluminum now and I am just wrong.

RedlineMan

In the extreme, alloy seats need a fair amount of integration into the cockpit to counter the lack of material memory of alloy. I don't think anyone is certifying alloy seats either.

A.Wayne

1100 BUCKS FOR AN ALLOY SEAT ! better include installation as part of that custom fit.

A.Wayne

That's right , to run an alloy seat you need to add additional bracing that is not required , when using a composite seat, Remember also it takes more time etc to get out of one an alloy seat in an emergency. As far as form fitting we are currently running, sparco rally seats and it does gets real form fitting close in those things.

We have been looking at the alloy seat as an option but was put off by all the extra support necessary for acceptable installation .

As Far as fabbing goes , doing composite mods are not a problem today as most now work with it , It is of course easier to find someone to weld , but it can be done with composites

Bull

The head halo is currently available for the Kirkey RR seats. Stable Energies has sold them for a couple of years, at least.

fatbillybob

Yeah, keep thinkin. I'm not a dual user but I think it could be huge. You would have the cheapenss of the aluminium seat with greater protections especially since lots of dual users do not use a cage or have doorbars. They are unwilling to drill holes to properly mount sidenets. So containment by seat would greatly elevate their level of safety. It would not be a stretch to do this since lots of dual users already bring track tires to the track too. I think the kirkey is a great platform for this.