In-car 2:10 lap sebring video with data acq overlaid
01-26-2006, 12:37 PM
#16
Very cool Norm. Really enjoyed it. Thanks. Now, that's exactly how I'd like to take 17, but I seem to end up going a lot wider in the middle of the turn (and a lot slower).
And just as an aside, I will note that I don't ever recall Norm self-proclaiming how fast he is which is my pet peeve about some who post here.
And just as an aside, I will note that I don't ever recall Norm self-proclaiming how fast he is which is my pet peeve about some who post here.
01-26-2006, 12:49 PM
#17
I've been using an early copy of Norm's race video for testing, and have watched it countless times while figuring out AIMs' weirdness with lap numbers. It STILL catches me off guard when I see Norm's speedo climbing above 100MPH faster than my tach in third gear on full throttle!!
Watching this video and another favorite of his from Putnam, there are few better examples of smoothness and quiet hands. Great examples of what we try to teach. The fact that he is doing it this way touching 180MPH and 2Gs is just sick. Nice work, Norm!
Watching this video and another favorite of his from Putnam, there are few better examples of smoothness and quiet hands. Great examples of what we try to teach. The fact that he is doing it this way touching 180MPH and 2Gs is just sick. Nice work, Norm!
01-26-2006, 01:52 PM
#18
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EDIT - Should have started off by saying REALLY cool video!! For comparison here's a lap from testing at Sebring in my Radical DSR:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...61442656867398
My best lap all weekend was a 2:18, but I'm not that good. Tripped over SRFs too often too, but didn't want to get too aggressive. No need to win the test day.
Kudos on a 2:10. That's moving along at Sebring!! Somone commented above about the acceleration above 150mph. It IS impressive. The Radical tops out at a mere 140(ish).
On the video itself - Google down graded the quality a bit, and it wasn't the best in the first place. I'm still working with my low-buck setup to get the best quality. No sound either (again, fooling with a mic to get good sound for low $$).
-Matt
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...61442656867398
My best lap all weekend was a 2:18, but I'm not that good. Tripped over SRFs too often too, but didn't want to get too aggressive. No need to win the test day.
Kudos on a 2:10. That's moving along at Sebring!! Somone commented above about the acceleration above 150mph. It IS impressive. The Radical tops out at a mere 140(ish).
On the video itself - Google down graded the quality a bit, and it wasn't the best in the first place. I'm still working with my low-buck setup to get the best quality. No sound either (again, fooling with a mic to get good sound for low $$).
-Matt
Last edited by Matt Graham; 01-26-2006 at 02:11 PM.
01-26-2006, 02:13 PM
#19
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Thanks guys. And yes I still too will be doing some changes/improvements in my Sebring driving & setup to get faster this year...
Norm
Norm
01-26-2006, 03:49 PM
#21
Race Car
holy cow, that car is FAST!
I'd really like to see a clean lap... without so much traffic.
ok, only cause you asked.... heres my .02 (this is the race forum, right...?)
(also note: I've always run momentum cars, rotories, (race) and an early 911 (DE))
T17, looks like you are taking the inside line (close to inside wall, and hit the bump (under the bridge), then track out.
-this is the line I always ran in traffic, as it blocks anyone behind, until you cross. (and you can (will) pass on the inside). I do believe the outside line is the faster line, without traffic.
(but I like the inside, as it felt safer and give me a larger margin if I locked it up)
T3, you are running the DE line. staying wide to get the run into T4, but, I dont think it helps, as you cant really use the extra speed. (at least I can't)
I aim straight (line) for the corner right after the T1 exit. ( T3 curbing on drivers left), as this is a passing zone for anyone going to the right, leaving the door open. (similar to T12 at hmstd)
(then I left foot brake at the top of T4, slight release, and again, into the the carousel (T5) turn in... w/ trailbraking) (with this line, there no turn, no scrub until you brake at (before) the T3 apex.)
T10, (cunningham), had too much traffic, but I read in scca (fast lap) many yrs ago, to stay right, (on exit) to get car in position for the T11 (or T10b ?) exit... the idea is the car is going slowest here, and thats where you want to get the car turned. (looks like you have to turn after the exit, to setup for the T13 (tower) entry. if you rotate in the beginning, its a straight-er shot to the T13 brake zone. (of course your only line was the inside w/ traffic)
(- I run this line as my carb(s) would/do starve, after the exit otherwise)
If you get a test day, you may want to TRY the T3 and T10 lines.
T17 you'll have to slow down and follow someone to find the ref points...
(and of course, I've never driven over 140, so what do I really know
)
-Sooooo, do you have a right seat? I want a ride!
I'd really like to see a clean lap... without so much traffic.
ok, only cause you asked.... heres my .02 (this is the race forum, right...?)
(also note: I've always run momentum cars, rotories, (race) and an early 911 (DE))
T17, looks like you are taking the inside line (close to inside wall, and hit the bump (under the bridge), then track out.
-this is the line I always ran in traffic, as it blocks anyone behind, until you cross. (and you can (will) pass on the inside). I do believe the outside line is the faster line, without traffic.
(but I like the inside, as it felt safer and give me a larger margin if I locked it up)
T3, you are running the DE line. staying wide to get the run into T4, but, I dont think it helps, as you cant really use the extra speed. (at least I can't)
I aim straight (line) for the corner right after the T1 exit. ( T3 curbing on drivers left), as this is a passing zone for anyone going to the right, leaving the door open. (similar to T12 at hmstd)
(then I left foot brake at the top of T4, slight release, and again, into the the carousel (T5) turn in... w/ trailbraking) (with this line, there no turn, no scrub until you brake at (before) the T3 apex.)
T10, (cunningham), had too much traffic, but I read in scca (fast lap) many yrs ago, to stay right, (on exit) to get car in position for the T11 (or T10b ?) exit... the idea is the car is going slowest here, and thats where you want to get the car turned. (looks like you have to turn after the exit, to setup for the T13 (tower) entry. if you rotate in the beginning, its a straight-er shot to the T13 brake zone. (of course your only line was the inside w/ traffic)
(- I run this line as my carb(s) would/do starve, after the exit otherwise)
If you get a test day, you may want to TRY the T3 and T10 lines.
T17 you'll have to slow down and follow someone to find the ref points...
(and of course, I've never driven over 140, so what do I really know
)-Sooooo, do you have a right seat? I want a ride!
Last edited by mrbill_fl; 01-26-2006 at 08:30 PM.
01-26-2006, 03:59 PM
#22
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mrbill, thanks for the ideas/suggestions.
I am not exactly sure what you are saying on T10 to T13 area.
Are you saying you go more to the right as you exit 10 before going into 11 since that will straighten out the approach through T12 to T13?
If not, if you can describe where you are T10, T11,T12 that may help me understand what you are saying.
Unfortunately no right seat...
Thanks,
Norm
I am not exactly sure what you are saying on T10 to T13 area.
Are you saying you go more to the right as you exit 10 before going into 11 since that will straighten out the approach through T12 to T13?
If not, if you can describe where you are T10, T11,T12 that may help me understand what you are saying.
Unfortunately no right seat...
Thanks,
Norm
01-26-2006, 04:37 PM
#23
Race Car
Correct, after the T10 apex, stay to the right about 1 car width from grass, (edit: or maybe mid track) then turn in for the T11 (?) late apex
(instead of: letting car track out to drivers left,... where you have a short arc for the t10 - t11 left hander exit.)
with the early rotation, its a bigger arc, and more exit speed.
(we need a track map.... as turn numbers change on the short, modified, and long, and even sometimes change by the race org)
the idea was you're slow here anyway, so get the turning done early to setup the exit. and not scrub speed after T11 exit (looked like you had to turn wheel at t12 (tire wall on drivers right... /pit out for short course)
I forget who wrote the article in scca's mag, it was in the late 90's. But when I read it I respected their opinion. (that was when the scca mag was large format)
all I can say is try it, and see if it works for YOUR car. it may not...
But in T3, you are leaving the door wide open!
I'd set up guys in T1 for the T3 pass. (I'd drive straight for the apex, and they look over, and think WTF!)
But you now have position into T4, and its only one lane wide from T3 apex, to the carosel turn in. (T5 ?) and you're now ahead.... just make the carosel count and you have them into the safety pin.
same deal at T17, follow on their bumper down back straight, then go for inside, when they go wide, your ahead on inside, and tracking out infront of them after the apex.... they pretty much have to lift to let you cross. (track out). and your car didnt look too bumpy there... and much safer... (someone always buys the tire wall on the outside.... and thats usually it for them for the weekend)
also I kinda thought you turned in early at the saftey pin, but that may be due to the locked rear end. I turn in abour 1/2 car lenght after the surface change.
(again, I'm so much slower, that I throw the car there....)
(instead of: letting car track out to drivers left,... where you have a short arc for the t10 - t11 left hander exit.)
with the early rotation, its a bigger arc, and more exit speed.
(we need a track map.... as turn numbers change on the short, modified, and long, and even sometimes change by the race org)
the idea was you're slow here anyway, so get the turning done early to setup the exit. and not scrub speed after T11 exit (looked like you had to turn wheel at t12 (tire wall on drivers right... /pit out for short course)
I forget who wrote the article in scca's mag, it was in the late 90's. But when I read it I respected their opinion. (that was when the scca mag was large format)
all I can say is try it, and see if it works for YOUR car. it may not...
But in T3, you are leaving the door wide open!
I'd set up guys in T1 for the T3 pass. (I'd drive straight for the apex, and they look over, and think WTF!)
But you now have position into T4, and its only one lane wide from T3 apex, to the carosel turn in. (T5 ?) and you're now ahead.... just make the carosel count and you have them into the safety pin.
same deal at T17, follow on their bumper down back straight, then go for inside, when they go wide, your ahead on inside, and tracking out infront of them after the apex.... they pretty much have to lift to let you cross. (track out). and your car didnt look too bumpy there... and much safer... (someone always buys the tire wall on the outside.... and thats usually it for them for the weekend)
also I kinda thought you turned in early at the saftey pin, but that may be due to the locked rear end. I turn in abour 1/2 car lenght after the surface change.
(again, I'm so much slower, that I throw the car there....)
Last edited by mrbill_fl; 01-26-2006 at 05:31 PM.
01-26-2006, 05:59 PM
#25
Race Car
this site use to have some good stuff, but I had to look for a post I made for trackpedia to find the track. (their index is broken)
not sure I agree with this drivers hot lap... mabe if you edit the urls for other tracks you can find one you want....
http://www.na-motorsports.com/Tracks/FL/Sebring.html
not sure I agree with this drivers hot lap... mabe if you edit the urls for other tracks you can find one you want....
http://www.na-motorsports.com/Tracks/FL/Sebring.html
01-26-2006, 06:43 PM
#26
Three Wheelin'
Norm,
Excellent driving and very fast car! I agree with Mr. Bill about turns 10 to 13. If T11 is the left hander and T12 is the second left hander, you don't have to *apex* the second left hander. You are pulling the car all the way over to the left and there is plenty of room to let it drift to the right (it's also a shorter, straighter line to the turn in for 13). Stay about a car length or more to the right of T12 and let the car drift wider (it's very sticky out there and plenty of pavement, but most people skip it...)
I don't know if I agree with Mr. Bill about 17 (but I might). There are two lines through that turn. The first is your line (to the inside and over the bump). You may be able to get on the gas sooner there (right after, if not before, the bump) because it didn't look to me like you were using all of the trackout. The second line is to brake deeper and carry more speed in WAY to the backside of the turn and take a later apex onto the front straight. With your power, you could get on the gas a lot sooner, but I don't know which would be faster for sure. The outside line is a sharper turn to get the car rotated at the backside, but you can get on the gas VERY early.
-dc
Excellent driving and very fast car! I agree with Mr. Bill about turns 10 to 13. If T11 is the left hander and T12 is the second left hander, you don't have to *apex* the second left hander. You are pulling the car all the way over to the left and there is plenty of room to let it drift to the right (it's also a shorter, straighter line to the turn in for 13). Stay about a car length or more to the right of T12 and let the car drift wider (it's very sticky out there and plenty of pavement, but most people skip it...)
I don't know if I agree with Mr. Bill about 17 (but I might). There are two lines through that turn. The first is your line (to the inside and over the bump). You may be able to get on the gas sooner there (right after, if not before, the bump) because it didn't look to me like you were using all of the trackout. The second line is to brake deeper and carry more speed in WAY to the backside of the turn and take a later apex onto the front straight. With your power, you could get on the gas a lot sooner, but I don't know which would be faster for sure. The outside line is a sharper turn to get the car rotated at the backside, but you can get on the gas VERY early.
-dc
01-26-2006, 06:56 PM
#27
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Sebring t17; I was told when I started driving Sebring that there are as many lines through it as there are drivers.
OK guys how about a full lap write up of Sebring? Would really like to have a read of that...
OK guys how about a full lap write up of Sebring? Would really like to have a read of that...
01-26-2006, 07:22 PM
#28
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Juan,
I just checked and the magazine is actually Victory Lane Feb 2006.
I scanned a portion of the pic (rather poorly).
It is on page 46...
Norm
I just checked and the magazine is actually Victory Lane Feb 2006.
I scanned a portion of the pic (rather poorly).
It is on page 46...
Norm
01-26-2006, 07:44 PM
#30
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by mrbillfll
Correct, after the T10 apex, stay to the right about 1 car width from grass, (edit: or maybe mid track) then turn in for the T11 (?) late apex
(instead of: letting car track out to drivers left,... where you have a short arc for the t10 - t11 left hander exit.)
with the early rotation, its a bigger arc, and more exit speed.
(we need a track map.... as turn numbers change on the short, modified, and long, and even sometimes change by the race org)
the idea was you're slow here anyway, so get the turning done early to setup the exit. and not scrub speed after T11 exit (looked like you had to turn wheel at t12 (tire wall on drivers right... /pit out for short course)
I forget who wrote the article in scca's mag, it was in the late 90's. But when I read it I respected their opinion. (that was when the scca mag was large format)
all I can say is try it, and see if it works for YOUR car. it may not...
But in T3, you are leaving the door wide open!
I'd set up guys in T1 for the T3 pass. (I'd drive straight for the apex, and they look over, and think WTF!)
But you now have position into T4, and its only one lane wide from T3 apex, to the carosel turn in. (T5 ?) and you're now ahead.... just make the carosel count and you have them into the safety pin.
same deal at T17, follow on their bumper down back straight, then go for inside, when they go wide, your ahead on inside, and tracking out infront of them after the apex.... they pretty much have to lift to let you cross. (track out). and your car didnt look too bumpy there... and much safer... (someone always buys the tire wall on the outside.... and thats usually it for them for the weekend)
also I kinda thought you turned in early at the saftey pin, but that may be due to the locked rear end. I turn in abour 1/2 car lenght after the surface change.
(again, I'm so much slower, that I throw the car there....)
(instead of: letting car track out to drivers left,... where you have a short arc for the t10 - t11 left hander exit.)
with the early rotation, its a bigger arc, and more exit speed.
(we need a track map.... as turn numbers change on the short, modified, and long, and even sometimes change by the race org)
the idea was you're slow here anyway, so get the turning done early to setup the exit. and not scrub speed after T11 exit (looked like you had to turn wheel at t12 (tire wall on drivers right... /pit out for short course)
I forget who wrote the article in scca's mag, it was in the late 90's. But when I read it I respected their opinion. (that was when the scca mag was large format)
all I can say is try it, and see if it works for YOUR car. it may not...
But in T3, you are leaving the door wide open!
I'd set up guys in T1 for the T3 pass. (I'd drive straight for the apex, and they look over, and think WTF!)
But you now have position into T4, and its only one lane wide from T3 apex, to the carosel turn in. (T5 ?) and you're now ahead.... just make the carosel count and you have them into the safety pin.
same deal at T17, follow on their bumper down back straight, then go for inside, when they go wide, your ahead on inside, and tracking out infront of them after the apex.... they pretty much have to lift to let you cross. (track out). and your car didnt look too bumpy there... and much safer... (someone always buys the tire wall on the outside.... and thats usually it for them for the weekend)
also I kinda thought you turned in early at the saftey pin, but that may be due to the locked rear end. I turn in abour 1/2 car lenght after the surface change.
(again, I'm so much slower, that I throw the car there....)
I agree on T3, that's the best passing turn on the track and the DE line leaves you wide open.
-dc