pedsurg

Previous threads re one on instruction have intrigued me. These threads have been helpful and informative but I don't recall any of them discussing the best format in which to receive such personal instruction. What track or DE format is generally recommended? regular DE, open track or private track? Does it matter? Any opinions or experiences?

TIA
Jack

993inNC

If you get a capable instructor (hhmmm who do I know ), the standard DE should do you plenty of justice. Of course it will depend on what your state of experience is and how well you learn from a complete stranger.

pedsurg

993: Agree re capable instructors. I've had many along the way. Actually instruct myself. However, I was interesting in investing in a day of private instruction. Contemplating such instruction at the open track day at Road Atlanta in early March.
Jack

993inNC

You are looking for further instruction to better yourself? Or are you talking about offering yourself as an instructor for hire for that day? Either way, a good idea.....I'd be be up for either as well.

pedsurg

993: I was interested in obtaining additional one on one instruction. Have you found this helpful? Does an open track day at Road Atlanta sound like the proper venue?
Jack

mitch236

I can tell you that getting professional instruction will improve your driving. I am an instructor and hired Justin Bell for one day during a DE event. It worked very well and he improved my lap times by almost 2 seconds and made me a better driver overall. I highly recommend it. Remember, most of us got instruction when we were novices and then no more. We all would benefit from ongoing instruction as long as the instructor was qualified.

Seth Thomas

You guys do bring up some very good points about is there a need for one on one instruction. This all depends on exactly what you want to do and where you want to go. Do you want to race? Do you want to always do DEs and be a better driver? Do you want to race in the Pro ranks? Do you want to have the ulitmate experience at the track? Everybody has different goals when it comes to track driving and what they want from instruction.

For the guys who want to be better racers, get faster lap times in a race, and one day move to the Pro ranks then a one on one instructor is worth while. A private one day session with an instructor you get along with will give you insight to different ways to think about approaching the track. You can see first hand how a pro handles different situations. Some instructors even use GPS based data analysis to compare your data to theirs. With this data, riding with them, and the conversations you will get a complete package that will allow you to improve your lap times. It will help you to get into a different mindset when you are at the track.

If you are the type person that always wants to do DEs and those type events then a one on one instructor might not be the best money spent. The best money spent my be riding along with friends or PCA/Whatever club is running instructors/faster guys and learning from them. You will keep learning and will have a cheap infinite number of guys to learn from. I still learn from guys that I ride with at DEs. Guys please don't take this paragraph as me saying anything negative about DEs or any type of track event that is not a race event. I am only talking about a $$/value scenario for the different personalities.

And last there are guys who will want to have the ultimate track day with one on one instruction from a pro driver. These are awesome events that will leave a lasting impression on everyone involved. The student(s) will learn a lot from this event and it can/will help them to become better drivers. These events are not taken as seriously as the first type event mentioned.

All in all I think we all will benefit from having some type of instruction on how to improve our driving. Part of being a good driver is to always be looking for ways to improve and the best way to find this out is to evaluate yourself first. Find out what you are wanting to do and then go from there. The best advice anyone has ever given me in my racing career was from Dereck Bell, keep it fun!

If any of you guys are interested in personal instruction I am available and would like to talk to any of you about it. Just shoot me an IM or email at porsche993@mindspring.com.

993inNC

I have never tried that before. I did go to a one day school at Silverstone while I was in England last year and got some good advice from an ex F1 driver......ah Ray something. Anyway, great idea, have no clue what it would cost. My first thought was that Road ATL would be a little to busy of a track, being that it is so technical and tight. I wonder if VIR or Roeabling wouldn't be better?

Aside from heal/toe type techniques, what can they teach you without being track specific/ car specific? Braking? If we are instructing, I hope we all know the proper ways to brake, be smooth with inputs and so forth........but now I am curious. Are you looking into the cost of something like this or just having an idea?

Seth Thomas

What a private instructor can teach a student really depends on the student. I am not making a general statement here to avoid answering the question. It is true. You mention braking techniques. There is a lot to learn about braking and how to do it. Most people do know how to brake and are smooth with inputs etc. But sometimes it isn't about being on the brakes at the last minute or braking as hard as you can. It might be that you can be faster through a section of the track by scrubing the brakes instead of pressing them hard. We can also show you this information with data. And then when you go from track to track this technique will help you out with similar sections or turns at those tracks. A good instructor can show you how to get 10/10ths out of your car when you thought it was already at 10/10ths. Driving is what a lot of guys do for a living and not a hobby. Their 10/10ths is a lot higher than those that do it for a hobby.

I will be honest and say that sometimes you don't learn a lot from a private instructor. Some people have learned as much as they can or as much as they want to know about how to drive fast. Remember when you did your first race school and people talked about the learning curve. Well the higher you are on the curve the less you will learn. This is where data and riding along comes in handy. You then learn to improve your fastest lap time by the tenths and not by seconds. You might only improve your laptimes by .5 seconds. Which isn't a lot in the grand scheme but this is a .5 second gain over 30 laps. In our series that is the difference in 1st and 20th.

Are you going to be at Sebring this weekend? If so then lets meet up and talk. I can show what the data will look like and how we approach making each other faster. My teammate, James Clay, and I going to be doing reviwing data all weekend so we will be ready for Sebring in March. And I bet by the end of the weekend we will have made each other about 1 second faster than we were at the start.

mrbill_fl

this came up on this board in the last 60 days...

in some of the 'private' instruction they did rent the track, but it was for 4 or 6 students.
(surely that can change to a one-on-one format for a price!)

another (cheap) idea is to find a DE instructor you like, then follow them, (to a few events) and request them. (this type of request is often honored... but not always.)

I agree that the format depends on your goals.
It hard to teach a passing double apex line when you need a point by in the turns.
(IE., racing lines, & technique benifit from an open track format)

-a few clubs do allow passing in the turns w/ a race or instructor licence.

also, if you can identify 'your top problem' or turn, that can help.

for instance, I know I'm not doing T7 at moroso right... so I'm always watching how a similar car take it.

Also, one of the things I look forward to is a 2 day student.
ie, Where there is a DE on Sat and Sunday.
In this format, (assume 3 sessions a day), I can change a line on satuday (break a habit), then fix it on sunday. in a one day format, often theres not enough time to change learned behavior, specially when you get to advanced (blue) or solo guys)

(stopping transmission braking comes to mind...
(2wks ago... had to force a otherwise good solo guy not to touch shifer, until in the braking zone, to not let out the clutch early.... (-which is a classic street driving technique) at the last session, when I was quite, he still used the trans to slow car... but he knew it was wrong, and said so, as he repeated the mistake during that session...)

(problem identified, but not corrected)

Glen

I would recommend Randy Pobst ,David Murry or Andrew Johnson at Road Altlanta, all live close by and are wicked quick.
Best,
G

Seth Thomas

All those guys are great at Road Atlanta but there are other guys too that live close by. I won't name any names but one of them, that held the track record in WC Touring Car until another local broke the record, posts on here.

pedsurg

Seth: I will be at Sebring this weekend and wil try and seek you out. Mr Bill: Good to hear from you again, I sent you a PM.Thanks for the advice everyone. The short answewr to the long question is I just want to get better. Since I have less experience with Road Atlanta (not as memorized), I might be forced to learn more.
Jack

993inNC

Seth,

Unfortunately I won't be at Sebring this weekend.....too many weekends leads to daddy living in the garage But I do appriciate the offer. I will however be at CMP the first weekend in March for another DE if you attend we could meet.

You know, having raced, and now in the DE mode, I don't think I really want to go any "faster". I am more than capable of keeping up with most anyone given equal cars.....but I am always up for a new little smoothness or speed tidbit. And besides, if aren't allowed to "race" in DE.......why push and run the risk of hurting the car?

mitch236

That is not true. I am sure that every single person on this board would benefit from qualified, professional one on one instruction. Some much more than others but all will glean something. Even the top drivers use coaches. There is alot more to driving than what you have implied and I would bet that a day with Seth (and I don't know him at all) would imrove your times even at the track you feel you know the best.